Transcription
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Craig Hart: Good afternoon, everyone, welcome to the latest edition of the Fast Forward Expert Roundtable here from Vertical Alliance Group, Infinit-I Workforce Solutions.
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Craig Hart: Dismantling DataQs, that is what we’re going to talk about today, the basics of DataQ operation what you need to do to have a good result.
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Craig Hart: What you need to avoid and then we’re going to be taking your questions, as well as we’re going through this can be about DataQ it can be on other subjects as well.
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Craig Hart: Due to the nature of our guest with us today now my name for those of you who have not participated in one of our virtual events before is Craig Hart.
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Craig Hart: I am with our events team here at Vertical Alliance Group and my cohost, as always, is Mr. Mark Rhea. Mark is a former industry executive, with over 30 years’ experience he is a trucking.
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Craig Hart: there’s been a lot of different hats in the trucking industry and including a certified safety director and he is also now part of the Board of Directors with North Central Texas Interlink.
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Craig Hart: And works, a lot, both within and without the transportation industry as an advisor and our guest here today, though, the person that you.
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Craig Hart: Are here to see and hear from is Chris Turner. Chris is the director of crash and data programs with the Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance.
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Craig Hart: He is a former State Highway Patrol officer with many, many years of experience, that we are going to be relying on today to talk about DataQ.
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Craig Hart: Mark, Chris I know we have a lot of ground to cover thank you both for joining us today and let’s go ahead and get this thing underway, but one thing before we do.
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Craig Hart: This is an interactive thing for those of you who are joining us today, so we do want your questions as we’re going through this.
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Craig Hart: Two different ways, you can do that one you can send it through the chat window you just click on the chat icon on your menu at the top of the page.
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Craig Hart: Open that up and then, if you go to the bottom there’s a section that says to and make sure that says hosts and panelists.
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Craig Hart: So actually, let’s change that to everyone, make sure that change to everyone to even people in the chat can see the questions that you are asking us.
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Craig Hart: You can also use the Q&A function, which is on your menu bar as well.
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Craig Hart: And that way we can review those we do already have some questions that have come in before the event started, which is great and we’ll get to those but mark pleasure to see you again, Chris pleasure to see you again, too, Sir it’s been a few months.
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Chris Turner: yep, I’m super excited to be here today, I can talk about DataQs all that I enjoy them and, hopefully, everyone will get something out of today’s presentation.
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Mark Rhea: We all are in the other thing is, we know there’s a lot of miss misinterpretations and rumors about that DataQs so.
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Mark Rhea: I’m glad we have such a large grouping today that maybe we can put some of those to bed, so thank you for what you do Chris for our industry to bridge that gap between enforcement and industry practitioners, thank you.
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Chris Turner: Absolutely, are we ready to get started.
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Craig Hart: Yes, are we are.
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Chris Turner: By chance, did you were you able to get those poll questions, yes let’s go ahead and pull that up first so everyone.
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Chris Turner: Before I introduce myself briefly and then CVSA who are we, I want to want to have just one set of poll question one to get everybody going and
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Chris Turner: answering questions right off the BAT so we know we have everybody engaged in too, so I have.
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Chris Turner: A better idea about who’s in the audience So if you could take a minute and answer those and glances will glance at the.
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Chris Turner: Results here in just a minute that’ll let me know where I need to spend a little bit more time during the presentation.
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Chris Turner: got a lot of information, we also have plenty of time to go over today and I want to make sure we leave plenty of time for questions and answers
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Craig Hart: Excellent looks like folks are answering everything for us, which is great We appreciate that.
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Craig Hart: Leave it up a little bit longer here.
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Craig Hart: I love, how you phrase that first Question No, I have not had the pleasure.
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Craig Hart: of using this system very nice.
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Craig Hart: awesome awesome.
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Chris Turner: All right, where we at how we doing.
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Craig Hart: We’re headed up almost a minute here a couple more seconds, then we’ll close it out.
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Chris Turner: And don’t be shy.
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Craig Hart: Again, all the responses are anonymous, so we just want to see by percentage who have our audiences has experienced with the system and in different facets of it.
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Chris Turner: You should have given an award for the people who’ve been successful, how many times and you want to win you win a prize.
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Craig Hart: Alright let’s go ahead and close this out here.
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Craig Hart: awesome.
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Craig Hart: And I’ll let my man behind the curtain share the results with you, Chris you can see.
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Mark Rhea: what’s going on anyone percent.
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Chris Turner: what’s that last one.
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Craig Hart: The last one successful 57% not successful 42%.
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Chris Turner: Alright, great so that really helps me with some direction, we do have about.
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Chris Turner: A little under 10% of you who are not familiar with the system so for those of you who are hang with us, while we get to this first session Okay, I want to make sure we’re inclusive to everybody.
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Chris Turner: And the folks who haven’t had a chance to use the system or really know what it is, I want to give them an opportunity.
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Chris Turner: As you can tell, you know we’re talking and speaking to each other today we’ve.
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Chris Turner: we’ve all met, and I can talk to each other, before but that also goes to high want this conversation to be. I don’t really want this to be a lecture.
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Chris Turner: So, as you have things you want to talk about as I’m moving through this if you have questions, I want to have conversational. I really feel like that’s going to be the best way we get through this most productively today.
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Chris Turner: So that’s fine it’s been up there, a little while who’s Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance you’ve probably read it.
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Chris Turner: But we’re conglomeration we represent all the jurisdictions in North America, Canada, US and Mexico.
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Chris Turner: And their lead agency contacts for the Motor Carrier Safety Assistance Program that’s the mix at grant that the feds pay so folks in their jurisdictions complete truck inspections on large buses she’s man large trucks and buses.
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Chris Turner: And as you can see, there are goals uniformity, compatibility, and reciprocity, we want a very similar inspection that you get in Texas.
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Chris Turner: To be the same you get an Oklahoma and Kansas, there may be some state specific stuff but on a federal level, they should be identical there’s nearly two identical as they can be.
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Chris Turner: We want reciprocity between Mexico, excuse me, Mexico and Canada and the US, knowing if they’re not going to be the same always where we can make those.
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Chris Turner: make them reciprocal and the type of inspection and interaction with law enforcement that’s what we want to do our other Members are a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, they write the regs, CVSA writes the out of service.
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Chris Turner: NIZZA, NTSB if you can think of a federal agency and an acronym for them, they’re probably members, if they have something to do with motor vehicle safety.
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Chris Turner: And then another one of our biggest members and it outweighs are the jurisdictional members or associate members and that’s folks like you who are on this presentation today motor carriers, shippers, IPs.
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Chris Turner: gosh manufacturers, vehicle manufacturers, we have the ABS developers, the automatic the driverless vehicle developers, we have Waymo and so a ton of people.
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Chris Turner: Including component manufacturers for breaks.
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Chris Turner: All of them come together at our conferences and help us write the out of service right that criteria to petition the federal government for different things that we believe will be safe and further industry so.
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Chris Turner: Really, both are our goals to we are committed, and you can see they’re dedicated to driver vehicle safety, we want.
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Chris Turner: Everyone to get where they’re going safely, but we also want business to be able to thrive and their ability to transport their loads across the US it’s a huge part of our gross national product, and we know that respect it, and we support you all so let’s jump in.
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Chris Turner: let’s see don’t change the slide just yet, who am I just a quick background Chris with Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance, I deal with our data.
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Chris Turner: Which is one of the things we’re going to talk about today with DataQs and judicial outreach for CVSA, I run our road check program and I’m a national trainer for law enforcement prosecutor judges.
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Chris Turner: Across the US and my previous life that’s probably even more relevant here when I was the commander of the Kansas highway patrol.
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Chris Turner: spent a lot of time reviewing DataQs reconstructions crashes impairment so thousands of them over my time with a patrol so that’s that’s my background okay let’s jump into the objectives.
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Chris Turner: So our first objective is going to be, I want to make sure that we’re able to explain the DataQ system to you that you can explain it to others how it’s important to carrier shippers and drivers and law enforcement next slide.
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Chris Turner: won’t be able to manage your expectations you’ll see later, that the DataQs are the ability to be successful, is tremendous within the system.
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Chris Turner: But manage expectations about when you should be successful why things may take as long as they take and how to use the system, then finally next slide number three.
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Chris Turner: I want to make sure, by the end of this presentation that you can explain the do’s and don’ts of the DataQ system and then prepare really well written DataQ.
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Chris Turner: That is likely to lead to you being successful and your challenge of your issue so let’s jump into my next header here explaining the DataQ system and its importance to carriers drivers.
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Chris Turner: and law enforcement, very important to us as well, so next slide I realize and understand completely what data use can feel like right.
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Chris Turner: We got Dwight screaming whatever clip this is from my wife’s favorite show.
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Chris Turner: For the Office, obviously, and now I’ll be walking by the room, and I can recite line she listened to it so much, but.
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Chris Turner: You know, really, the website can feel like it’s you’re confused your lost, you’re unsure and sure all those things that that sign represents and talks about, and we want to clear that up.
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Chris Turner: Today, so for the 10% of you who aren’t familiar with DataQs, let’s run down that first rest of you hang with us and we’ll get to the really important information from you and the next two segments so let’s start off with what is FMCSA DataQ system.
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Chris Turner: You can read them I’m going to spend a bunch of time, reading the slides to you.
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Chris Turner: Essentially, as you can see, it was established in 2004 and what that act did was actually allow folks to be able to challenge a census data that the Federal Government keeps on you let’s translate that into a personal issue if they had my social security number which they do.
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Chris Turner: But my address or my date of birth or my name all that stuff if they had it wrong, I could correct it that’s what it was supposed to be initially for the DataQ system.
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Chris Turner: It was an opportunity for carriers and drivers correct that census data mainly carriers at the time that it came about so since.
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Chris Turner: It has evolved into an incredibly robust and great program we’re now motor carriers’ drivers shippers all the folks that we we’ve talked about and we’ll be talking about today.
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Chris Turner: can challenge, a violation or an adjudicated citation or crashed preventability, because, unlike when this started.
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Chris Turner: For that, for those of you who, like me, are long in the tooth we didn’t have CSA.
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Chris Turner: We didn’t have basics, we didn’t have percentages what we had as the SMS when I pulled a truck over it had green yellow and red. Green means they didn’t have any history from a client’s review, yellow meant they did and red meant they had.
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Chris Turner: failed one or conditional, for some reason now there’s way more information, but that also means the possibility of having an incorrect information out there now matters so much more with CSA and your basic scores and CSV to motor carriers so let’s talk about that next slide please.
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Chris Turner: So, FMCSA and what they do with the data.
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Chris Turner: You know you think gosh what does FMCSA do with all this they’re just trying to mess with my SMS and they’re going to do a compliance for you they’re going to fine me the government wants to thumb
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Chris Turner: on the man, so to speak, right, but what FMCSA is trying to do is when they promulgate rules, they want to do it with the benefit of safety that we talked about but also allowing.
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Chris Turner: industry to function Now I understand that changes with different administrations and different government roles.
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Chris Turner: And let’s kind of set that aside for a minute, so we can get through this conversation because I’m sure we could go on forever about our opinions there but.
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Chris Turner: When we talk about policy development what is best for industry, you know take, for example, the recent emergency declaration for Hurricane Ida and the relief that that provided for hours of service or any other emergency declaration want to help folks save lives, get industry there safely.
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Chris Turner: Another way that they have used this data is to create the drug and alcohol clearing house and we’ve seen that there are a lot of folks who.
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Chris Turner: tested positive that we didn’t know about and should have been prohibited performing safety sensitive operations until they were through their plan.
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Chris Turner: But, to the benefit of motor carriers, I was taking it a step further, the crash proof inability to determination program is the result of FMCSA listening to you all.
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Chris Turner: and developing policies and making sure stuffs not on your record go ahead next slide please.
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Chris Turner: So, some examples of what you can already RDR and I’m using phrases, so I do, and you don’t know um let me know, RDR ours actually doing what.
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Chris Turner: Is the DataQ system if you want to think of DataQs is just a website, you know, like Google.
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Chris Turner: So, to speak, it is the location where FMCSA allows you to enter this information, but what you’re actually doing is entering a RDR, a requests for data review.
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Chris Turner: don’t feel bad I feel free to call it a DataQ everybody will know you mean if you say you’re going to data give something.
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Chris Turner: But you can DataQ crashes that we’re not recordable which is different than not preventable means you know not to follow it can prevent it and not reportable means you weren’t a CMV or you weren’t towed away, serious injury or fatality.
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Chris Turner: You can also challenge anything that’s on a roadside inspection or data collected during a compliance review duplicate inspection, as well as requests copies of report next slide please.
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Chris Turner: So, let’s drill down just a little bit, what are the things that we’re talking about whether it’s an inspection, a post-crash inspection, or.
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Chris Turner: And this is something you may not know crashes that you’re involved in don’t necessarily have to be associated with an inspection and most of the time they are.
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Chris Turner: But that crash report goes through the State Agency of record and Kansas, for example, that’s our Department of Transportation and then back to.
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Chris Turner: Our truck checking unit, and that is required by our grants we uploaded from the accident, rather than a post-crash report.
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Chris Turner: Here are all the things you can challenge: it was assigned to the wrong driver, the wrong carrier, not reportable, duplicate record, missing record, incorrect information,
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Chris Turner: and then also again, you can request a report if you didn’t receive one.
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Chris Turner: Through the DataQ system and we’ll talk a little bit more about that States may have an open records request that you have to comply with, but a large chunk of them is fulfilled, through the system.
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Chris Turner: Alright, so next slide please, so this will end our first session the slide right here, but why is it important to you well, I touched on CSA.
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Chris Turner: touched on SMS and the PSP and how that has changed since 2004 wins here, it was called CSA 2010 right when it started.
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Chris Turner: CSA 2010 was implemented I think in 2011 or they were behind to start with the now it’s just called CSA graded on your basics essentially.
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Chris Turner: Why is this important well carriers and need to make sure that they have the correct information in there right.
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Chris Turner: You want to make sure that your insurance rates as low as I can be that you’re hired.
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Chris Turner: If your carrier does on time shipments or anything else you want to make sure that you have a positive reputation when people go to look at you, as a carrier and you’re not on FMCSA list for an investigation or compliance review.
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Chris Turner: And then drivers, so you want to make sure that your information is correct.
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Chris Turner: You want to make sure that it shows you as a good driver that you are maybe that’s a bonus at your company, maybe it’s a new job that eventually you look for.
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Chris Turner: And you want your PSP to be clean you want it to accurately reflect the positive things that you’ve done.
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Chris Turner: So you may think that it’s not worth your time to file a DataQ hang with us, I can tell you that it is you’re going to see the results that folks have gleaned over this and we’re going to jump into that and our next two sections so let’s go to our next one.
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Chris Turner: So, the DataQ system managing carrier and driver expectations of the system next slide please, so why this is important, and you can see it’s just one slide that says expectations.
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Chris Turner: You know it’s important that we understand what the success might be, but also, you know why this is taking so long things that I’ve heard.
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Chris Turner: Good Lord the state doesn’t answer me they don’t answer me correctly they’ve taken forever, but especially if we talked about the Crash Preventability Determination Program.
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Chris Turner: My goodness, why does it take so long so let’s set some expectations, let you behind the curtain.
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Chris Turner: And know we’re trying to do on our side, just like law enforcement or folks are doing the DataQs need to know what’s going on in your half I’m going to let you buying the curtain a little bit So you can see what we’re dealing with next slide please.
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Chris Turner: Okay, so you guys can read through that, but this is stuff I’m going to highlight a little bit as we talk, you know we’re looking at.
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Chris Turner: Over a half a million carriers that are interstate motor carriers that the States are responsible for you’ve got.
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Chris Turner: An additional huge number that are intrastate only carriers, and those are going to usually be your you’re not for hire, your private local carriers, your plumber, maybe a carrier in your state, things that don’t haul for higher.
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Chris Turner: But, yet they are a commercial motor vehicle yeah 6.8 million drivers that was in the 2020 FMCSA handbook, which is part of the materials that I provided for you.
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Chris Turner: Three and a half million inspections, 5.9 million violations, million out of service, 13 million registered trucks, I mean there’s a lot of them out there and then you know.
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Chris Turner: Over 500,000 large trucks and buses, not necessarily commercial motor vehicles but large trucks and buses involved in collision so my point and showing you all that is.
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Chris Turner: there’s not a whole lot of law enforcement in the US and fewer feds so there’s about 13,000 roughly plus or minus in any given year, law enforcement officers who are certified to inspect the truck.
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Chris Turner: And so, as you can see from all this data, some of it, they generate right, the number of inspections and out of service.
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Chris Turner: But these folks are also responsible for trying to work, those same crashes.
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Chris Turner: we’re going to talk about it in more depth later, but that’s why your crash investigation may not be as professional as you think it should be on every crash, but I want to talk about why and how you can help yourself with that so next slide please.
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Chris Turner: Okay, the here are the request or DataQs you saw the stuff that happens in the front end now on the back end here’s what we must work with and what happens when a DataQs has begun.
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Chris Turner: So you can see there’s over 6000 crashed DataQs in this is 2018 data is what I pulled.
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Chris Turner: 68% of that had a data correction on average two weeks to close that from soup to NUTS start to finish 14 days that’s great almost a 70% rate of correction.
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Chris Turner: Inspection you know over 40,000 DataQs with a 65% rate of correction when you request that DataQs carriers are requesting great DataQs and, often.
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Chris Turner: You know if this were sort of jury trial, this would be a verdict in your favorite right so preponderance of the evidence, more often than not, and a civil side you’re going to win this.
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Chris Turner: And then the other ones that are listed there just to get us to our total our investigations registration and request for reports.
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Chris Turner: So, this is worth it now what’s not included in here is crash proven ability and that although is through the same system it’s routed differently, and we will talk about that so next slide please.
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Chris Turner: So,
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Chris Turner: Got my next one there.
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Mark Rhea: Could we presume those numbers are larger for 2020.
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Chris Turner: what’s that what’s the question.
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Mark Rhea: That the numbers for 2020 or 2019 the.
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Mark Rhea: pattern is the same.
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Chris Turner: yeah, the patterns do the same, mostly in 2019 I didn’t get into 2020 and 2021 data just because.
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Chris Turner: COVID has kind of mess some stuff up numbers wise so in a typical year I wanted to give you what was representative, but the success rates are equal to or higher than what you saw from the previous slide.
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Chris Turner: So, when you go to the DataQ page what happens, you’ll get a copy of this PowerPoint that link is functional it will pop up and pull you to the website.
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Chris Turner: So, feel free to use it, this is the public site now what I will tell you is that I would have to go to the site to sign up now, because I am not a state user, I’m not a motor carrier.
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Chris Turner: So, I would have to use the site and there’s a lot of great stuff here to you can see, you every analyst guide, which I provided for you as well, and some more additional information.
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Chris Turner: Go to the next slide if you’re a motor carrier, however, law enforcement, they want you to use your portal, and let me explain why.
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Chris Turner: So critically important to know is the portal is the closest you’re going to get without being a State authorized user to real time data.
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Chris Turner: You don’t have access to make miss some state users do I did as an example for the OC for Kansas.
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Chris Turner: And you’re going to have information as being your own motor carrier organizational coordinator.
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Chris Turner: So real time or very near real time access, why is it different if you think of NIGMAS, which is the website, the database that supports all this it’s just it’s one database right.
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Chris Turner: It goes out and feeds all those other websites you go to for FMCSA whether it’s ANI.
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Chris Turner: For SMS or PSP but they’re only taking snapshots a once a month or once every 60 days of the data that’s in NIGMAS, so your data is not real time.
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Chris Turner: The portals hitting NIGMAS or Safer depending on and it’s going to give you really close to real time data compared to you know Snapshot that 60 days old.
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Chris Turner: So, you want to use this, in addition to the other great thing about using your portal is you can identify who you want, in your company to be able to file a DataQ.
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Chris Turner: And then you have control as the organizational coordinator over who those folks are and what they can do within the system.
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Chris Turner: right next slide.
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Chris Turner: Alright, so you can choose the type of thing that you’re going to request to be investigated.
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Chris Turner: When you start a DataQ again I’m talking about managing your expectations, you know what’s going to happen when you log in.
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Chris Turner: If you crash investigation your inspection registration, you need a copy of the report, whatever it is.
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Chris Turner: And then the reason for your requests, such as a crash not reportable them correct violation it’s assigned to the wrong carrier.
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Chris Turner: shockingly assigning the wrong carrier is a huge one that we see in one that we don’t want to have on a carrier profile.
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Chris Turner: So, once you work through this if we go to the next slide.
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Chris Turner: you’re going to be asked to enter some specifics of that event, the report number, the date, the time, carrier info which is your stuff the driver info.
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Chris Turner: And that is critical, because it helps behind the scenes route it to the correct location.
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Chris Turner: Which we’ll talk about in the very next slide, so you want to describe what you want reviewed you’re going to do this concisely.
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Chris Turner: But with enough information that folks know where you’re starting from so you’re just starting in the middle of the story.
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Chris Turner: Provide supplemental information and these two describing what you want, and supplemental information when we get into our next session about how to.
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Chris Turner: write a great DataQ that’s likely to be successful, these are the two that you’re really going to want to home in on describe what you want review.
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Chris Turner: provide that supplemental information you’re going to have a huge chance for success, and then you just must certify at the end of it that issue and the information you provided this correct so next slide please.
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Chris Turner: So, as we’re as we’re talking about this after you have entered all your stuff behind the scenes DataQ again there’s just the website is the file folders the cabinet.
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Chris Turner: takes that request for data review and send it to the appropriate jurisdiction, so when I was working in Kansas.
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Chris Turner: We started out with just a couple guys working DataQs and 2004, 2005, I started in a service.
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Chris Turner: And then, by 2011 we were just working nonstop but what happens is I get a get an email or a text, however, I had it set up on my device.
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Chris Turner: and notification that I needed to go in and open that DataQ and it starts what is a 10-day clock for the States.
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Chris Turner: No, no, what you saw on an earlier slide there we get them done within 14 days and 15 days respectively 10 days is the goal.
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Chris Turner: Almost all states meet that there’s a couple outliers out there that take longer and, probably, for what you would agree, would be a good reason.
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Chris Turner: Some of those states like Arizona, for example, they have an appeals process, it might stay open for three months.
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Chris Turner: But you get the chance to appeal it up to three times and that third time is front of a board that includes a driver, motor carrier representative, and law enforcement so.
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Chris Turner: Sometimes when they’re older they skew those numbers, a little bit, but the overwhelming majority of these are work easily within 10 days.
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Chris Turner: So once your request is reviewed the original officer, maybe consultant, and I know this is a sticking point the regional officer should always be consulted, just like your driver should always be consulted.
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Chris Turner: The real sticking point is some states that original officer may work that that DataQ so obviously not the best practice, not what we want to happen.
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Chris Turner: CVSA strongly recommend so does FMCSA that be an independent person within the Agency, who.
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Chris Turner: Of course, has to talk to the driver get a copy of their video make sure they have the correct inspection report, but we don’t want them working in the crash.
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Chris Turner: I’ll probably say that the crash or inspection the DataQ to proceed it’s more than once, but so I like being an attorney you know when you get these DataQs are not experts on what you got going on, so they must get.
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Chris Turner: Get out, which is not an option, get smart or they have to get some help, so you know, for example, I was a hazmat inspector, but I certainly was not an expert on hazardous materials alright so next.
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Chris Turner: What happens when this is all done and there’s four ways DataQ, you can be closed data close with a correction made.
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Chris Turner: Which and you’ll see in my notes, when you get this, it says, you know hey congratulations that means you want, whatever your issue was most likely.
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Chris Turner: You want they made a correction and you’re on your way to being successful DataQ challenges.
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Chris Turner: Close results entered that’s going to be for an adjudicated citation still means that you likely won in some way, shape or form.
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Chris Turner: And then close with no data correction made, the State didn’t agree with your assessment of the DataQ and they closed it.
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Chris Turner: or no response from request or happens, more often than you think somebody request something and then they just don’t.
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Chris Turner: They don’t answer emails are questions that the investigator may have so eventually usually within about two weeks they’ll close that.
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Chris Turner: Close that out, they try and give them more than the 10 days on average two weeks okay next slide.
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Chris Turner: Real quick, I want to show you the success rates, you know for these things that we’ve talked about a little bit and more broken down so for the crashes when it’s assigned to the wrong carrier happens a lot.
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Chris Turner: 88% of the data is corrected now again that goes back to 13,000 inspectors 500,000 crashes so many of these are work by your local PD or even a.
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Chris Turner: You know state organization, but they’re not certified to check a truck, so they do a long form, or a truck and bus inspection form is what some.
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Chris Turner: States call it it’s just an additional supplemental form and they do their best to write that stuff down, but you know, on the side of the trucks you got a magnet that might be there you’ve got.
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Chris Turner: owned by operated by DBA these folks don’t know what they’re doing.
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Chris Turner: They may not have a driver there to interview they don’t understand how to read shipping papers or logbooks or even call the company they’re not going to do that they’re going to move on.
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Chris Turner: So that’s where most of those come from, but their changed when their DataQ not hard to fix that one either assigned do wrong driver doesn’t happen, a lot, and it does happen again, a crash is pretty typical if you don’t know the driver was at the time.
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Chris Turner: Some of those in that category could also just be simply my and people will file it under assigned to the wrong driver, but if the spelling the names wrong well and for the driver’s license driver’s license number is wrong with call that an OLN.
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Chris Turner: date of birth is wrong that’s where you can see those corrections not reportable huge success rate, I mean look at the success rates 88% 64% 55%.
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Chris Turner: A duplicate record you don’t want to with violations on there, and the system so overwhelmingly carriers are successful in these DataQs us next slide please.
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Chris Turner: Those are for crashes if we talked about RDRs so inspections request for data review again just highly successful.
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Chris Turner: With the exception incorrect violation and that’s when it’s he said he said, usually and those are really going to be the ones we focus in on today, but even there you’re almost at a 50% data correction rate, I mean I don’t know how many of you are baseball.
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Chris Turner: fans but that’s a that’s a heck of a good rate right, especially in this because that’s the Agency going yep, we were wrong.
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Chris Turner: We interpreted that incorrectly they’re probably going to make sure they’re also knowing how to do it right next time and we’re going to take that off your inspection report that is a win for everybody.
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Chris Turner: Okay next slide please we’re going to jump straight into now, the teeth of what hopefully all of you are here for today, which is going to be.
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Chris Turner: Explaining excuse me, explaining the do’s and don’ts of the DataQ system and how to prepare a really well written DataQ what you need to put in there.
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Chris Turner: And I’ve got some examples for you as well. Let’s jump in with the first slide here now, this really could have been another section, but I thought it was more important to have here it’s more of an expectation, but also so you know what the state must do.
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Chris Turner: So, the state’s get grants from FMCSA, Federal Motor Carrier Administration and it comes in a mix at grant the Motor Carrier Safety Assistance Program.
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Chris Turner: Sorry, I don’t spell them out, very often, but the mix hat grant and it comes in, and they give that money in the required to go to widgets, widgets are truck inspections.
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Chris Turner: They get money for size and weight through a different source So those are different things so don’t associate those together, which is a great question if anybody has it.
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Chris Turner: And then here’s what the state must do for DataQs they have to take a request for data review for three years from the date of the inspection.
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Chris Turner: Five years from the date of the crash, why is that important, so you know the state must work this, even if it’s older still got to work.
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Chris Turner: it’s also important for you to know if it’s outside of this timeframe don’t bother submitting anything in because that doesn’t need to be worked it’s not going to be on your profile also the state doesn’t care so that will be closed with no action taken next slide, please alright.
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Chris Turner: A couple things that you need to make sure that you have.
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Chris Turner: done right to improve your results I’m going to take the low hanging fruit here first and then we’re going to jump into some more.
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Chris Turner: significant items when I check and make sure that the report is right that the state is right.
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Chris Turner: If I would get one, and I would look up the report number see it wasn’t in Kansas now I’m going to have to try and dig through and find out okay did the end of their own report number I searched my driver in the system, I searched your vehicle in my system.
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Chris Turner: I now spend a day and a half, giving it to my staff to work we’re doing it myself just to find out that it was an Arkansas report and I went to NIGMAS and finally found it.
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Chris Turner: we’re going to have to email you back to find it they’re going to do your due diligence, but if you want it to go quickly and accurately and start out on a good note, make sure that report number in that state of right if you have it.
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Chris Turner: A picture can be worth 1000 words and we’re really going to talk about that, and how that can be helpful for you.
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Chris Turner: Again, you want to provide those clear documents, court documents, rental agreements, any piece of paperwork that you have that support your position.
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Chris Turner: And then, finally, for an inspection record request, this is just an example of being patient and setting that expectation then wait two weeks before the requesting copy of an inspection and here’s why.
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Chris Turner: So, roadside what happens is they grab their handy dandy computer or laptop they knock out the inspection report.
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Chris Turner: They should send it up by that day, sometimes it goes straight to FMCSA, sometimes it goes to what we call a safer server.
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Chris Turner: I know it’s more technical than you want, but it goes to the local mix APP folks.
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Chris Turner: They edit, it fixes it, try and search and make sure that the right carrier makes sure the data is good everything is where it’s supposed to be, and then they send it up to FMCSA day or two later.
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Chris Turner: And the first process where it set up that first day ends up kind of in a holding pattern called Safer, you’re probably several of you are familiar with it.
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Chris Turner: Safer than shoots that down back to the state they downloaded the next day do all the same corrections changed up this and that.
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Chris Turner: And then upload it back to Safer again and, finally, it results in that that big database, I told you about called NIGMAS.
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Chris Turner: And that feeds all those other sites so that’s why it says to wait two weeks, because that process can take a little bit it doesn’t go through a guy forgets to send it.
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Chris Turner: It might be a couple weeks before you find it there, but that’s a good goal and that’s why it takes so long in the background.
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Chris Turner: All right, also just that last note there if they tell you no, and maybe because of some jurisdictional issue where they had to go through the state’s Freedom of Information Act.
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Chris Turner: So, as it turned out when I first became the Captain, I didn’t realize it and I was violating state laws everywhere I’ll tattle on myself I don’t think there’s a statute of limitations that matters in this particular one.
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Chris Turner: But I would just fulfill those right I’m like sure you have in an inspection report, you have an inspection, everybody gets one you want one, will give it to you.
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Chris Turner: If it’s yours not another carrier right what I didn’t realize is that our State had a $2 processing fee for our open records act so.
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Chris Turner: The lawyer, at the time had to come to tell me, I was doing things illegally and I shouldn’t be doing that so at any rate, there could be a situation where are they just have to request you do it a different way.
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Chris Turner: All right, best practices, what do you write in your request, what do you do so, you see that, where it says you catch more flies with honey I don’t love that phrase.
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Chris Turner: But it’s actually pretty applicable here so be gentle with me on it, as you as you read it.
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Chris Turner: So, I’m going to spend some time you’re talking about this, as we go over really the meat and potatoes of what we’re here for.
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Chris Turner: So, all of you are really in customer service right if you’re a manager, you want to make your employees happy, so they do a good job or and keep them in line so they do a good job or.
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Chris Turner: You know if you’re being hired to transport someone you have another boss, so you all of us have a boss, and all of us, also have to deal with the public.
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Chris Turner: And I think we get all easily admit and agree that, from a customer service perspective.
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Chris Turner: You know, when I was a trooper commander doing these my customer was the driver or the carrier, who called in.
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Chris Turner: But from that customer service perspective, even though I started every call with hey, how can I help you what’s going on.
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Chris Turner: I don’t think any of us would say we really listened, and we focused in hard, and we really thought hard about what that person was telling us.
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Chris Turner: You know when they started out yelling at us, or maybe use expletives in the conversation that aren’t in a joking way you know they rambled.
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Chris Turner: Your time is important to so is that other person’s and you took forever to get to your point people tune out, or if they’re disparaging about another person.
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Chris Turner: You know the DataQ shouldn’t open up and go hey your trooper or did this, or when you call your troopers a turd because they did this or a jerk because they did this.
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Chris Turner: that’d be the same thing as if I as a commander called you the companies that hey your driver did this that’s not how you open that conversation.
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Chris Turner: Even if you’re the most accepting person in the world, your first probably inclination is to defend right, but if you’re troopers whether it’s your employees your spouse or whoever it is.
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Chris Turner: So that’s not how you want to begin that conversation So when I say catch more flies with honey you absolutely do you want to be kind.
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Chris Turner: going to be articulate doesn’t mean you don’t want to be very adamant about your position you do, but there’s a way, you can do that you want to be concise.
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Chris Turner: And you must be your own advocate highlighting what you believe to be of critical importance in the evidence and that supplemental documentation.
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Chris Turner: And so, the second one, I hope, no one, no one here I get their feelings ruffled over the sternness so maybe what that slide says, or that bullet says when we’re talking about evidence.
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Chris Turner: It really needs to be something that we would call compelling evidence.
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Chris Turner: Just to be blunt and honest nobody cares what your opinion is somebody comes with if I’m calling in about a DataQ that supposed to be law driven.
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Chris Turner: So, if you think about it, what we really want is that law to be applied universally across every state as soon as a roadside officer says I’m going to give you a break.
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Chris Turner: But what did it that person they gave a break to what did they do to the one they didn’t give a break to so now someone who, who should add a violation didn’t.
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Chris Turner: And someone probably should have done but what’s that new the SMS and your peer groups and messes them up, so now you.
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Chris Turner: Where you got didn’t get the favor and somebody who did are now and skewed SMS groups, they get a better insurance rate they’re not, on the Compliance review list, and you aren’t for something that shouldn’t happen, so we need to be fair.
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Chris Turner: across the board, I will tell you anecdotally.
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Chris Turner: Many times, I’ve had carriers call and after we’re done sorting out the DataQ or whatever those just say hey contact it just for a minute yeah sure absolutely we’ll talk about the regulation.
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Chris Turner: And there are many times I said look, I agree, this regulation is not what it should have been, or maybe not maybe.
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Chris Turner: A dumb regulation, you know for just plain English, and a lot of law enforcement out there knows they’re there, they will agree with you, but they have to enforce it equally across the board so.
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Chris Turner: hang with them that doesn’t mean they’re not people won’t talk to you, but just don’t open the conversation that way.
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Chris Turner: Alright, some other information so in your request to talk about what you need to highlight.
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Chris Turner: I’m going to take a just a crash as an example let’s say it’s a crash that’s not preventable, which is also part of the DataQ system that just goes to FMCSA rather than the State.
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Chris Turner: Right, so if you believe that’s the case, then you need to highlight the things on the police accident report that are wrong.
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Chris Turner: And it’s really not that hard to find, especially when you have just a normal person working the crash report, a non-inspector, and not a reconstruction that’s right you’re going to say two cars hit like this on their diagram.
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Chris Turner: But their witness statements, two cars hit like this and by God, you couldn’t convince them any other way possible, even if you put them right by their cars and say look at what you’re saying is not possible.
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Chris Turner: they’ve been in a traumatic event witness are incredibly unreliable and especially when it been that traumatic event with their head does is take pictures of it right.
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Chris Turner: But there’s gaps so really you can find that good evidence in the police accent report that you believe to be incorrect, you want to highlight that.
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Chris Turner: And pointed out and we’re going to not on a crashing on inspection we’re going to do it here in the next slide or two slides from now so let’s go ahead and move on to the next slide.
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Chris Turner: Okay, how can you get carrier and driver help themselves and then that silly phrase again more flies with honey it’s still in place so let’s talk again about let’s put this in the context of a crash that implies place within inspection as well.
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Chris Turner: First, be kind be respectful this is this is now worth the drivers, the road sightseeing right, what does he need to do.
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Chris Turner: Those are being recorded by law enforcement everywhere, if you’re respectful of your kind, especially if the officer happens not to be.
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Chris Turner: Well, you look like a rock star, and I mean that literally I mean you can win cases in court where they play that video.
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Chris Turner: And stories, I can tell you where I said so, if I didn’t mean to.
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Chris Turner: When I’m in my car and somebody I was sitting in my gosh darn it you sucker not the word I used but I’m in court and.
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Chris Turner: I stopped to make contact like certain look, you know hey or you’re right, you must be back there’s you know and go on want to check on you totally.
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Chris Turner: Professional right, but what is the Defense do just keeps replaying that they pulled over correctly didn’t they so that’s a cue for a DUI and you can just hear me going you sucker you almost hit my car well I sound like a jerk.
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Chris Turner: So that’s the impression that the jury has a knee, and it takes a bit to fix that impression right So if you start out that way huge advantage.
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Chris Turner: Obviously, take the crash example right go make sure the folks are OK.
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Chris Turner: Call 911 the things that come out of your drivers’ mouths are you all right is there anything I do for you do I need to call anybody is anybody else in the car hurt.
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Chris Turner: Just that kind of stuff if they can turn on their phone and record that do it right away train your drivers to do that, or if you have video and audio in the car great evidence you almost always wanted the DataQ.
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Chris Turner: Then the next thing you need to train your drivers just a legal standpoint your attorneys will tell you the same thing don’t offer unsolicited information and it’s hard not to do.
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Chris Turner: That make sure your drivers don’t say you know things like oh my gosh I didn’t realize that light was red.
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Chris Turner: or I didn’t realize this, or I forgot to do my check, or the load came off I should have stopped at that 50 mile mark and check the load.
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Chris Turner: It just comes out in stressful situations so just review that with them, but at the same time.
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Chris Turner: boy listen to when you go contact the person that other car because they’re going to say some stuff that may really help you prove prevent ability so listen write it down.
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Chris Turner: Whatever you can do to have that useful information when you submit that DataQ huge help to you and your success rate.
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Chris Turner: Again, as we’re talking about catch more flies with honey.
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Chris Turner: As it’s going to fight the scene, that we just talked about is going to apply with your initial phone call or request to FMCSA or the state.
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Chris Turner: And again, without audio and video review you’re going to sound great when somebody else may not.
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Chris Turner: So, if the opportunity presents themselves during an inspection as an example, stop and ask that officer hey I.
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Chris Turner: wrote me a violation for I’m going to do chafing hoses in a minute so, and if something we talked about this is a quick example.
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Chris Turner: hey can I go out and kind of take a picture that, you told me that my taillights out, my break light it’s out, my turn singles out, can you show me which one might take a picture of it, so my my safety guy
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Chris Turner: or, I know what to fix right now what’s been on my post trip, so I know what to do better next time.
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Chris Turner: They should let you, and if they don’t, they’re going to be the one that doesn’t look good.
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Chris Turner: But then you can go back there, and you may see that it’s the sunlight reflecting off that it is working and that may cause them to remove the violation.
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Chris Turner: But it gets you the evidence, you need you’re going to see this a lot in violation replies, it is a snapshot of point in time.
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Chris Turner: That the trip the condition of the truck was in right some standard language that they get back to you.
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Chris Turner: that’s because you’ve taken the picture after you’ve gotten really what would be the possibility to have it fixed so bear in mind.
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Chris Turner: We work with a ton of good carriers out there, but unfortunately, we also work with the kind of the low hanging fruit right the folks who are.
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Chris Turner: Not good people and not good guys that are you know, really, you can even think of them as criminal enterprises.
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Chris Turner: So they’re the ones that we have to guard against so that’s why that snapshot picture and time has taken you don’t take somebody’s word for got to be evidence.
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Chris Turner: So, to the picture if you can get the patrol car in it on the side, or if its date stamp it’s time if you could say I’ll circuit at least get your sleep in there, so we noticed, as you hear the scene.
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Chris Turner: Where it’s recorded on their video and ask them all those things are great things that way, they know that picture was taken real time.
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Chris Turner: Finally, with pictures and crashing something that’s important when you have that critical incident, if your drivers going to take pictures there can never be enough pictures, especially with phones today.
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Chris Turner: here’s your two sides of the crash the beginning, in the end, start at one end walk all the way through that scene, whether it’s your driver your manager that comes out later or your insurance person.
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Chris Turner: turn around and walk slowly, all the way back through that scene you don’t take four pictures of the vehicle you take at least eight.
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Chris Turner: The rear quarter panel side corner bill front quarter panel, all the way around same thing with a semi focusing on the damage.
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Chris Turner: And then any violations that are shown focusing on those and maybe even get a copy of that tow report or get a copy of that
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Chris Turner: repair bill from the insurance company to help you prove your case whether or not something that was preexisting where’s the post-crash
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Chris Turner: incident and if you if you can’t just say there’s no way, this was preexisting has happened because of the crash when you submit that into your DataQ hey here’s what my mechanic said.
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Chris Turner: Do you have a reconstruction is to can peek at this and see.
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Chris Turner: that’s when they might forward it on to their reconstruction, as he wasn’t at your property damage crashed and the reconstruction is come back comes back to the commune says no way that wasn’t preexisting.
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Chris Turner: Right or it was preexisting you were hitting the rear end a top shock clearly, I can see that tail amp was on it wasn’t off this is a post-crash violation.
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Chris Turner: Just the opposite, you know you’re hitting the rear end and the headlights out okay well.
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Chris Turner: That would have been pre-crash or at the very least, it wasn’t caused because of the crash.
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Chris Turner: and reconstruction is, can you usually do that real quick, especially if it’s worth by PD officer or you submit that information in.
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Chris Turner: And that will really help you make your case post-crash so again with that mechanic says.
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Chris Turner: translate that into hey here’s what my mechanic said, do you have somebody else can look, and maybe verify that and your DataQ huge likelihood of success.
334
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Chris Turner: Next slide please alright let’s translate this into a real-world example I picked hoses because man, this is an easy one right.
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Chris Turner: We see it all the time it’s stuff that roadside officers mess up all the time, I hope, we’re doing better I’ve trained on blue in the face on this, the how to service language.
336
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Chris Turner: And the handy dandy CVSA out of service criteria if you don’t have a copy and not trying to sell it upon it, but it’s helpful for DataQs.
337
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Chris Turner: Is for any damage extending through the reinforcement fly right but that’s not what 393.45 b 2 says 393.45 b 2 says required.
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Chris Turner: there’s a typo there sorry required tubing and hoses are secured against clinking, chafing, and or mechanical damage was the out of services different.
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Chris Turner: Well, because the out of service is, to the extent where law enforcement this is egregious enough for an airline that law enforcement should let you go until it’s fixed let’s take it out of service for that.
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Chris Turner: Again, you can see, on another politely asked the inspector, where it is you can take a picture of it if they can show you.
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Chris Turner: inspectors are used to that now you don’t argue the point, but you just ask hey can you show me where it is wanting to do right, the next time.
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Chris Turner: there’s two things one you can get the evidence right then and there if you see that it’s just changed.
343
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Chris Turner: And, not through the reinforcement supply which is fantastic that’s going to win your DataQ right then and there let’s stop there for just a second.
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Chris Turner: That means that it wasn’t extending through the reinforcement supply.
345
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Chris Turner: With your DataQ, you can even submit this information, you can say hey page, whatever the out of service criteria says, it must be.
346
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Chris Turner: reinforcement flies visible and applies for a tablet or cut through that’s out of service here’s a picture.
347
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Chris Turner: Your officers’ cars in the picture, so it was taken at the time of the stop you can clearly see we did pictures, all the way around it, it is not through the enforcement apply troopers even pointing to where it is you went.
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Chris Turner: Right, then in there and I can tell you so many times that happened, especially the new inspector, they just didn’t get it didn’t take the time to go look at the out of service.
349
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Chris Turner: Another thing that might happen is you might get an inspector he goes oh hey hang on a minute.
350
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Chris Turner: And they go back to the car to take your driver with them because look the out of service together like shoot that’s not through the enforcement supply.
351
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Chris Turner: Let me just take this off now so violation, maybe you did have some chafing, for example, or maybe it wasn’t secure that you remove it right, then, and there.
352
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Chris Turner: print a new one you’re good to go or gives you that information to challenge it and then finally let’s say they don’t.
353
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Chris Turner: Say it’s a jerk officers not doing what they should be doing, and they just say I’m not going to let you get out and take a picture get your button a truck go first of all, I hope that never happens, but if it does, I know that it is sometimes.
354
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Chris Turner: stop as soon as you can and get that picture taken and then make sure you put that in that DataQ when that standard language wants to come back it’s a snapshot in time, you should have taken the picture, then.
355
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Chris Turner: Your officer didn’t let me, I hope you had as a video, and you can review it.
356
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Chris Turner: and know that our driver asked and the officer said no, we stopped at the nearest trucks up and here are the pictures that we took didn’t have time to correct that violation, please take them as best evidence again you look great and you’re probably going to win.
357
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Chris Turner: Next slide please will be brief related adjudicated citations a couple other quick things and we’ll take questions.
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Chris Turner: Just know that this is the deal with the duplicate it citations convicted of the original charge they’re not taking off dismissed with punitive court fine that’s where I’m going to spend just a second.
359
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Chris Turner: let’s say the driver pled guilty for possession of marijuana, alcohol, whatever well it’s a 390 2.4 a violation and possession of drugs or substances.
360
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Chris Turner: that the guilty plea is removed if they pay a $300 fine plus forecast and doesn’t incur any violations for a year.
361
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Chris Turner: The driver does that you’re later the file the RDR through officer reviews the Court documents that’s not coming off.
362
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Chris Turner: it’s not coming off because the $300 fine plus court costs court, costs would allow to come off the fine wouldn’t so there was a punitive fine.
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Chris Turner: In that case, another example, a driver paying a fine to the anti-drug fund to have a possession citation dismissed it happens.
364
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Chris Turner: That paying a fine to the drug fund should be a punitive thing they didn’t do that just because they wanted to.
365
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Chris Turner: Then you can see, the other side of this charts included dismissed without a fine it’s removed that’s like I’m not guilty as well prosecutor can approve the charge.
366
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Chris Turner: And then convicted of a lesser charge them end up in in the safety net okay two quick ones really quick and then we’ll take time for questions.
367
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Chris Turner: If things don’t go as planned and you get a denial back you do have the opportunity to see there in the circle area to add a response or documentation that lets you do that at least once.
368
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Chris Turner: Other there are some ways, you can email back and forth, you can also call don’t be afraid to call.
369
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Chris Turner: Our lead agency contacts are listed on our website and that part is open to the.
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Chris Turner: To the public you don’t even have to be a member of CVSA just go to CVSA.org context is in the header left hand side of the lead agency contacts phone number should be on your inspection report to give them a call.
371
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Chris Turner: Just ask to have that same nice conversation and find out what’s going on.
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Chris Turner: They may allow you to resubmit so, but you can add a respond to things don’t originally go as plan, they can find out what’s missing right email gets messed up, but if you can talk to somebody and know exactly what they need.
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Chris Turner: better chance of success doesn’t be afraid to make that phone call you don’t know who to call and it’s a fad next slide please.
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Chris Turner: So, FMCSA, this is an active link when you get your slide deck it works.
375
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Chris Turner: Those are the few offices that link will take you right to it, and you can also drill down to the territory or the state that’s included and get that division office.
376
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Chris Turner: And you can call the talk to the division administrator who may be able to help you with the State Agency or if FMCSA is the one who did the inspection.
377
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Chris Turner: jump to some commonly asked questions I’m going to start with the CPDP the Crash Preventability Determination Program is the decision by FMCSA final sure is.
378
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Chris Turner: Unless you discover new evidence that is compelling can FMCSA or state, for that matter, request information if they’re working it absolutely they can.
379
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Chris Turner: They can request anything that carriers were required to maintain under the agency’s regulations.
380
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Chris Turner: what’s the status of their quest, especially if you’re going through your portal you’re going to see that real time, where is it at what’s the last email that’s gone back and forth what’s the status.
381
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Chris Turner: And then again if you’re checking the PSP and SMS up to 60 days for that update, we talked about it that’s why it takes so long it’s not real time.
382
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Chris Turner: Is a snapshot every 30 to 60 days SMS and PSP or than 60 days you should get that snapshot next slide please.
383
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Chris Turner: Some commonly asked questions on an inspection report is the state decision final? I’m going to say kind of because the States and FMCSA actually a required to have.
384
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Chris Turner: Some sort of appeal process in Kansas it went to a trainer than a lieutenant and then to me for a final decision.
385
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Chris Turner: And we took all those very seriously and had separate conversations about each or in some states like Arizona it goes to an unbiased panel with industry and driver representatives.
386
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Chris Turner: Can estate request it yep there’s like FMCSA they can request more information, again, you can see, the status of the most recent response to the portal and then also wanted to update it 60 days, then PSP or SMS to one more slide before Question sign next.
387
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Chris Turner: Just typical thing I threw together for you it’s in it’s in the PowerPoint you can use it, but it’s a program matrix for whether to file a crash proven ability determination.
388
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Chris Turner: You can see follow the arrows if they’re yes, yes, yes, yes, ultimately, you should review request to review the crash, and then, if any of them kick you out to a known.
389
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Chris Turner: You really shouldn’t that’s also going to help your win rate as well, making sure your challenge good violations so last slide.
390
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Chris Turner: This will be in your slide deck just want to show you a tier helpful websites more information than one after this will be me.
391
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Chris Turner: name and web address and phone number, you can always call me send me an email always happy to help spend an hour with the guy about data here on the phone today reference Arizona and Indiana so always happy to do that, and with that I’m done and happy to take questions or comments.
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Craig Hart: awesome we have people who have been adding things to chat and the Q&A function so let’s go ahead and get started here. Michael asked, can we DataQ warning tickets.
393
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Chris Turner: Yes, that’s a great question wanting tickets is a little different um it depends on what you mean by warning ticket and I’m looking over to see that one as well.
394
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Chris Turner: So, first there’s no such thing as a warning ticket but that’s really a nomenclature thing right so inspection report isn’t inspection, there is a violation.
395
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Chris Turner: That violation might consider the warning ticket, you have an actual citation that’s a ticket.
396
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Chris Turner: right that you have to go to court on and then some States, even if you get a violation and special report actually have a physical warning you have to fill out and handed the driver separately.
397
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Chris Turner: That traditionally when you say that’s what law enforcement that third one thinks of as a warning ticket.
398
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Chris Turner: But here’s what I would say to you to answer, I think your question getting past this anything that is on an inspection report.
399
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Chris Turner: can be challenged, whether it I don’t care what the violation is, you may challenge it, but you can also challenge the date, the time, drivers name, and your address.
400
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Chris Turner: By challenge that you’re wanting that data could be corrected and remember how we open the conversation with that it uses its to correct census information.
401
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Chris Turner: So they got your address wrong that’s driver wrong absolutely correct it, but any violation that’s on an inspection report.
402
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Chris Turner: If it is not on an inspection report there’s nothing to challenge if you get a ticket separately there’s nothing to challenge, you’re going to win that in court has to be on inspection report.
403
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Chris Turner: If they wrote you a warning ticket and didn’t put it on the inspection report, you know some side piece of paper that doesn’t go anywhere, it has to be on the inspection report if it’s there you can absolutely challenge it okay.
404
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Craig Hart: Doug asks we recently experienced a pedestrian suicide by truck we have evidentiary video supporting our driver, as well as a supportive police report can this be DataQ now that this is showing up on our SMS report.
405
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Chris Turner: yeah, absolutely this is going to be one of the crash proven ability termination programs.
406
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Chris Turner: As another event or there might be suicide in there, so I don’t have it up right in front of me, so I got a I’ve got our DECA.
407
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Chris Turner: Yeah you can feel free to give me a call as well, and I can walk you through that that big so, so suicides is one of the things that.
408
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Chris Turner: The two things, firstly, give me it’d be challenge is non preventable but, honestly, the first thing I would tell you to do is challenge, it is not reportable.
409
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Chris Turner: A lot of folks don’t know this recording will crash has to be one on a public highway or a thoroughfare you know in between the parking lots.
410
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Chris Turner: But it also has to be a crash, which is not a non-intentional event so someone committing suicide in front of your truck is not a crash that isn’t intentional event there should not even be a crash report taken.
411
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Chris Turner: That you may have to pull up the muck and guidelines that I didn’t send but you know what I’ll send it to you as soon as I’m done if you guys want to distribute and.
412
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Chris Turner: Muck D 16 those are what determines when it crashes happened that’s, not even a crash, not a crash at all shouldn’t be on a piece of paper, other than an incident report.
413
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Chris Turner: You will find departments that fight with you terribly about that, because they disagree so, then you would go to the crash vulnerability determination program file that DataQ two ways, you can get it off.
414
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Craig Hart: I had a question here, if you have dash cam footage that is over five megabytes in size, how are you supposed to get that over to the DataQ.
415
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Chris Turner: Yeah that’s a tough one, so you might have to email them and ask them separately if that’s a way you can get it to them other than that you might need to find a way to either compress it.
416
00:55:24.270 –> 00:55:30.960
Chris Turner: or you’re going to need to shorten it to just the absolute relevant pieces, you might even need to break it up into two segments.
417
00:55:31.470 –> 00:55:38.040
Chris Turner: But I do understand their limitation, I can tell you visited with Jody Lorenzo just the other day about this FMCSA working to up that.
418
00:55:38.370 –> 00:55:43.770
Chris Turner: To where it will be a little bit more robust, but as they soon as they do it, they won’t be enough so shorten it.
419
00:55:44.040 –> 00:55:56.100
Chris Turner: compress it and or send multiple segments and try and get it within that, if not, you might be able to talk to someone and they may be able to take it a different way, either by mail or maybe you can even have a zoom call where you show it to them.
420
00:55:56.550 –> 00:55:59.640
Chris Turner: And most folks will be willing to do that if you’ve got compelling evidence.
421
00:56:00.690 –> 00:56:07.950
Craig Hart: Okay, we have a question don’t have a name on this one, where do I find detailed criteria on crash prevent ability.
422
00:56:08.400 –> 00:56:16.230
Craig Hart: That was included in the handouts, that you provided that went out on a link to everyone on your reminder for the event today.
423
00:56:16.950 –> 00:56:20.910
Craig Hart: there’s a ton of information that Chris put together for everyone on this call already.
424
00:56:21.540 –> 00:56:31.020
Craig Hart: It is included in there, along with a lot of other good information and he’s even giving us more information, since we put that first batch together so we’re going to have a second batch together.
425
00:56:31.500 –> 00:56:41.340
Craig Hart: Of those things as well, because we want to make sure that you all have these details and can use them in defense of your organization and your drivers so.
426
00:56:42.030 –> 00:56:48.870
Craig Hart: Let me see here, so he had specific color or she I’m not going to say was just a her police action report.
427
00:56:49.290 –> 00:57:02.910
Craig Hart: incidence indicates that our CMV was struck at the eight o’clock position to be eligible for this crash type the CMV needs to be struck in the five or seven o’clock position, so I guess there was.
428
00:57:04.860 –> 00:57:11.070
Craig Hart: For the determination program that was saying that their vehicle was not eligible for participation in that so.
429
00:57:11.100 –> 00:57:19.320
Chris Turner: Yeah, you didn’t you didn’t meet the criteria, the problem and think of it this way, they started with just a few criteria, the second time they expanded this out from the the.
430
00:57:19.770 –> 00:57:24.900
Chris Turner: original study to the termination program they had a criterion, the one they didn’t add was struck on the side.
431
00:57:25.770 –> 00:57:30.480
Chris Turner: Just way too complex for them to be able to handle and determine whose fault it was especially.
432
00:57:30.810 –> 00:57:37.560
Chris Turner: If you’re just traveling along two lanes that ends up so much, he said he said, and nothing’s ever changed without compelling evidence and you don’t have it.
433
00:57:38.010 –> 00:57:44.310
Chris Turner: So, while I realized that does not consider, sometimes when you’re just straight up it on the side and it’s clearly not your fault.
434
00:57:44.640 –> 00:57:53.850
Chris Turner: That is where FMCSA drew the line so that wouldn’t meet one of the 10 possible things that you can challenge under there and to that other person oh yeah there’s a ton of stuff.
435
00:57:54.390 –> 00:58:02.100
Chris Turner: If you want to if anybody wants to give me a call or email me separately, I can help send you material I’m not your trucking company safety person, but.
436
00:58:02.730 –> 00:58:03.840
Chris Turner: More than help.
437
00:58:03.930 –> 00:58:08.610
Chris Turner: More than happy to help get you going the right way, because we do want to see you be successful.
438
00:58:09.270 –> 00:58:17.250
Craig Hart: A Colin went ahead and share that link again in chat just now, for those of you that may have missed that on that reminder, and I know that some of you are watching your watch.
439
00:58:17.820 –> 00:58:27.210
Craig Hart: Those of you taking the time to answer questions we’re going to go through every one of these that we’ve got so if you have questions coming, we will keep working on this and keep this event going until we’re able to get.
440
00:58:27.690 –> 00:58:40.920
Craig Hart: answers and responses so let’s get our next question here with COVID being an excuse for officers I’ve had officers not provide signed inspections or tell a driver, they are okay to leave.
441
00:58:41.400 –> 00:58:54.660
Craig Hart: And then the inspection shows us on our inspection list with violations, how is this legitimate I guess what the guidance is that’s being given to officers in terms of COVID, I know we talked a little bit about that back in May.
442
00:58:55.140 –> 00:59:04.110
Craig Hart: about what officers don’t want to have to be doing to inspect drivers get rods things like that not get in the cab of the truck and so forth.
443
00:59:04.800 –> 00:59:10.590
Chris Turner: Yeah, so that’s a great question I really appreciate it, so we do have our COVID protocol that we kicked out as well as departments.
444
00:59:10.860 –> 00:59:16.200
Chris Turner: they’re going to have their own individual protocols that’s going to change department to department, so I can’t speak to all of them.
445
00:59:16.860 –> 00:59:29.130
Chris Turner: But, as a general rule, we want folks to keep that safe distance not to get in the cab if they don’t have to try not to get super close to the driver unless they have to maintain that social distance it’s for their protection, as well as your drivers.
446
00:59:29.490 –> 00:59:40.020
Chris Turner: and, especially, right now, with all of stuff going around with COVID we don’t know where people feel and where they feel about it, you know we didn’t have feelings when I started to being a trooper for 25 years ago, a lot of folks do now.
447
00:59:41.190 –> 00:59:48.330
Chris Turner: And we, we want to make sure that everybody’s comfortable and don’t know where that line is all the time, so I do understand your situation.
448
00:59:48.750 –> 01:00:00.510
Chris Turner: And there’s really no requirement actually their motor carrier per se sign it, it has to be sent to them the driver do it does have to be signed when it’s returned or for the inspector to necessarily sign it that’s going to depend on their own policy but.
449
01:00:01.560 –> 01:00:12.570
Chris Turner: You know, certainly we don’t we don’t want folks not doing a good job interacting with that driver but it’s really going to be an agency-by-agency policy there’s no federal guidance.
450
01:00:12.840 –> 01:00:22.380
Chris Turner: That they’re required to follow during an inspection wish I had a better answer for you on that one we do recommend social distancing, but we still recommend completing a thorough inspection, just like they always have.
451
01:00:22.800 –> 01:00:26.070
Chris Turner: Sometimes those two things don’t go well together in a particular department.
452
01:00:27.240 –> 01:00:40.470
Craig Hart: gotcha all right now, I have a bit of a longer one here I’m in September, one of our drivers got stopped and got a violation for using personal conveyance while looking for safe parking at around 10pm at night.
453
01:00:42.630 –> 01:00:52.680
Craig Hart: The driver and he first stopped at one truck stop it was full he then moved on to a rest area, it was also full and then the APP that they were using.
454
01:00:53.340 –> 01:01:00.870
Craig Hart: indicated that there was another truck stop about 39 miles down the road and the driver went to that location, and that is where.
455
01:01:01.380 –> 01:01:10.380
Craig Hart: They got tagged for the hours-of-service violation and the officer handling DataQ said that there was a weight station.
456
01:01:11.010 –> 01:01:24.210
Craig Hart: With shoulder parking that was available, but this was a driver that was looking at a 10-hour break and that another truck stop was also available, but this was not one that was on whatever APP they were using at the time.
457
01:01:25.500 –> 01:01:42.150
Craig Hart: You know they’ve sent the footage at the truck stop was folder sent the GPS, to show that this was not to the benefit of the company, it was just trying to get safe parking I’ve got the log books um you know what can this company do to put this in DataQ.
458
01:01:43.050 –> 01:01:50.040
Chris Turner: yeah, this is a tough one, and I don’t know if you’ve already DataQ on something maybe have so first of all personal conveyance is new.
459
01:01:50.910 –> 01:01:58.050
Chris Turner: relatively speaking in the life of FMCSA and I think it’s done a lot of good for carriers and drivers when they’re out of hours to get somewhere safe.
460
01:01:58.530 –> 01:02:08.880
Chris Turner: it’s also created a big confusion roadside as well, I can tell you, generally, how it is, is enforced and how it should be enforced, so in this circumstance.
461
01:02:10.110 –> 01:02:18.510
Chris Turner: The first location, you were trying to get to as a haven, as you run out of hours is now for okay that’s what PC is for you go to the next one is full.
462
01:02:18.990 –> 01:02:30.540
Chris Turner: And then you come across a way station I’m going to go back to the weight station you come across another rest area but it’s not on your APP I’ll go back to that too, and then you eventually get to.
463
01:02:31.320 –> 01:02:42.870
Chris Turner: A rest area that is suitable meaning, it has services over a 10-hour break restroom and something to eat or drink and then it’s a safe place for you to rest okay so let’s take these an order.
464
01:02:43.500 –> 01:02:48.900
Chris Turner: The one with the wight station, especially if it’s an hour break and it’s shoulder parking probably not a lot of credibility there.
465
01:02:49.530 –> 01:03:00.150
Chris Turner: While they could stringently enforce the PC and so you should have stopped there think you can make a really good argument that that’s really not a safe haven it’s not a safe location for your driver to take a 10-hour break.
466
01:03:00.780 –> 01:03:07.350
Chris Turner: It sounds like to me, you can articulate that very well with the evidence is presented concisely and in that way.
467
01:03:07.770 –> 01:03:18.510
Chris Turner: But here, unfortunately, is where I think your data fails, and I realized this is probably not a popular thing to say, but it’s that it’s that APP and I went on to the next rest area where I passed, one that was viable.
468
01:03:19.020 –> 01:03:32.640
Chris Turner: that’s where you’re going to lose this and probably should because even though you know understand it wasn’t the APP you’re using that doesn’t relieve the possibility that now you’re out of hours were using PC to get you somewhere safe and you skipped somewhere safe.
469
01:03:33.780 –> 01:03:43.200
Chris Turner: So regardless of why that happened, it could even be I saw, and I missed my exit that one you might get through, but on that one probably not going to be successful in the DataQ.
470
01:03:44.130 –> 01:03:49.410
Chris Turner: Maybe that’s a policy decision that you need to visit with FMCSA about or come to CVSA and we can submit.
471
01:03:49.770 –> 01:04:05.040
Chris Turner: A request for clarification from FMCSA or guidance for right now that’s where that would fall, not because the way station per se, but because of the next rest area that you didn’t take, for whatever reason, that may be in here was because it was not on an APP.
472
01:04:06.270 –> 01:04:10.110
Craig Hart: Okay we’ve got a couple questions here, involving trucks catching on fire.
473
01:04:12.960 –> 01:04:13.530
Chris Turner: Been there.
474
01:04:13.980 –> 01:04:27.570
Craig Hart: Truck catches fire, burns up a company receives accident report listing is non preventable against the company on the portal, can it be DataQ in the preventable program to be changed to non preventable.
475
01:04:29.040 –> 01:04:35.220
Chris Turner: Two things so it’s a reportable and non-reportable and then prevents ability program I don’t remember if that’s one of the categories.
476
01:04:36.060 –> 01:04:43.170
Chris Turner: don’t believe that it is on the non-preventable so let’s deal with is it a crash or not, it unfortunately is a crash.
477
01:04:43.470 –> 01:04:50.280
Chris Turner: Any motor vehicle in transit, and then a fire is going to meet the requirements for crash, and in this circumstance, it was.
478
01:04:50.580 –> 01:05:01.200
Chris Turner: It almost always must be towed so that’s where you get stuck with it being a reportable crash it’s going to be something that happened in transit on a roadway public roadway and there’s damage.
479
01:05:01.650 –> 01:05:11.160
Chris Turner: First, harmful event is going to be going down the roads could be fire and the most harmful event will also be the fire and there’s going to be a tow truck that meets all the criteria it’s going to be one you must comply with.
480
01:05:11.880 –> 01:05:20.040
Chris Turner: As far as profitability I don’t think a fire is on there, but I’ll double check that when we’re done just to make sure, but I don’t think a fire is on there if somebody knows that it is correctly.
481
01:05:21.480 –> 01:05:27.660
Craig Hart: gotcha all right here got some more for you.
482
01:05:29.880 –> 01:05:32.460
Craig Hart: couple folks with fires us.
483
01:05:35.010 –> 01:05:35.520
Chris Turner: A lot.
484
01:05:36.270 –> 01:05:41.490
Craig Hart: I’m going to go ahead and put your contact information back up on the screen because folks are asking for it, as we go through this.
485
01:05:42.720 –> 01:05:44.460
Chris Turner: free to call or email happy to visit.
486
01:05:45.150 –> 01:05:53.640
Craig Hart: We did talk about the guidance on court citations when is dismissed upon payment of cost you give us that chart that showed.
487
01:05:54.720 –> 01:05:58.530
Craig Hart: The punitive fine versus the non-punitive fine and which gets removed which doesn’t.
488
01:05:59.010 –> 01:06:03.000
Chris Turner: And I didn’t include any material a little more information on the craft or I’m sorry on the
489
01:06:03.630 –> 01:06:08.520
Chris Turner: adjudicated citation that you can read through, and if you have any tough ones on that again feel free to email or call.
490
01:06:09.600 –> 01:06:10.530
Craig Hart: awesome all right.
491
01:06:10.740 –> 01:06:12.960
Chris Turner: Here, maybe I should, if I could just quick.
492
01:06:13.020 –> 01:06:14.280
Craig Hart: Sure, absolutely what your time.
493
01:06:14.340 –> 01:06:16.800
Chris Turner: there’s something different that goes on, with masking.
494
01:06:17.850 –> 01:06:23.970
Chris Turner: which we may be able to talk around and so its own class that I teach for three days, but a State can’t mask either.
495
01:06:24.450 –> 01:06:35.250
Chris Turner: But we’re going to talk about masking it can’t ask a conviction just something you shouldn’t just everybody should know a conviction that we normally think of that’s going to be a guilty from a judge or a guilty from a jury right.
496
01:06:35.940 –> 01:06:47.400
Chris Turner: But that’s not what happens for the definition of conviction for the feds for masking their definition of conviction is really broad it is those things conviction by a jury or judge.
497
01:06:47.970 –> 01:07:00.030
Chris Turner: But it’s also any administrative hearing that you lose so a DUI admin hearing a hearing where you’re suspended because you’re not healthy anymore, maybe a medical one for.
498
01:07:01.530 –> 01:07:10.500
Chris Turner: Epilepsy, or you could even have a diversion, which is what we’re talking about here that counts as a conviction under masking, so you have a couple of.
499
01:07:10.890 –> 01:07:18.390
Chris Turner: Competing things that can mess, with the DataQ program when it comes to that, and I know there’s some stress with Indiana and Missouri named states.
500
01:07:19.350 –> 01:07:28.770
Chris Turner: that’s just because of how they understand masking and we just haven’t got a great answer from FMCSA, and it is one of those things that tends to change administration.
501
01:07:29.100 –> 01:07:35.430
Chris Turner: From administration right or wrong, fair, or not, and so we haven’t locked down on an answer, yet, but know that we were trying.
502
01:07:35.640 –> 01:07:43.860
Chris Turner: If you want to try as well, maybe that would help promote some progress there, so we get an answer we don’t care what the answer is, we just want the answer, so we can appropriately deal with the DataQ.
503
01:07:45.420 –> 01:07:48.810
Craig Hart: All right here more questions more questions keep them coming folks.
504
01:07:49.500 –> 01:07:57.210
Craig Hart: challenge the same crash twice first time we were struck by a vehicle that failed to stop at air traffic control device, I was told.
505
01:07:57.600 –> 01:08:05.640
Craig Hart: The yield sign, though, is not a traffic control device, then I filed it under vehicle that failed to stop or slow in traffic.
506
01:08:06.000 –> 01:08:16.140
Craig Hart: And that still failed because they’re saying the other vehicle didn’t need to stop at the yield sign and I just don’t understand how a yield sign is not a traffic control device.
507
01:08:16.680 –> 01:08:25.650
Chris Turner: I would, I would certainly argue that it is a traffic control device, but I think with them, they mean my traffic control device is going to be something it’s a stop sign or stoplight.
508
01:08:26.130 –> 01:08:32.280
Chris Turner: Rather than a yield sign, but I would I would certainly argue the traffic control devices a yield sign.
509
01:08:32.760 –> 01:08:40.080
Chris Turner: In that regard I think you’re right there, but I do believe they actually interpret that differently, a little bit like a conviction.
510
01:08:40.830 –> 01:08:51.690
Chris Turner: That we may think of it in one way, but, generally speaking, they interpret it a different way, meaning that it is not perse, a traffic control device, even though I would agree with you that it is.
511
01:08:53.220 –> 01:08:53.880
Craig Hart: All right.
512
01:08:55.530 –> 01:09:07.860
Craig Hart: With a instance where we were flagged for HOS violations, where there were none we train our drivers to never argue with the COPs but there was clearly an error made and I providing proof.
513
01:09:08.280 –> 01:09:19.710
Craig Hart: And now I’m being told that that our records have been altered or I guess that is the reason that they’re not choosing to look at that information is they are claiming that those are altered.
514
01:09:20.850 –> 01:09:22.830
Craig Hart: rods for that driver.
515
01:09:23.700 –> 01:09:30.750
Chris Turner: Oh, my yeah that’s one where I would recommend a phone call if you haven’t already, and you can always call me and we can visit about it as well.
516
01:09:30.930 –> 01:09:39.000
Chris Turner: We certainly do get things that are altered and back when we use fax machines, just so you know if you highlight something in white, in fact, that you might as well highlighted in yellow and facts.
517
01:09:39.000 –> 01:09:49.560
Chris Turner: That work, but now we’re in a different age right things can be changed, but unless they have a picture or snapshot, or they took the logs if it’s an ELD and they had that transmission.
518
01:09:49.920 –> 01:09:56.070
Chris Turner: And then something changed after the fact, they shouldn’t be accepting that is the legitimate thing to what happened there.
519
01:09:56.640 –> 01:10:01.620
Chris Turner: So, I guess I’d say two things one it’s worth a phone call to find out what exactly the contention is again.
520
01:10:02.040 –> 01:10:07.110
Chris Turner: approach, it is hey I just want to know what’s going on, I really feel like we’re right, but can you explain to me where you guys are coming from.
521
01:10:07.920 –> 01:10:14.790
Chris Turner: It could also I mean double check I hate to say it, the double check that there wasn’t an alteration in between your driver and.
522
01:10:15.210 –> 01:10:19.410
Chris Turner: What they gave to the inspector mean obviously you guys are going to have records of that in the back end of the.
523
01:10:19.950 –> 01:10:30.390
Chris Turner: ELD if there is one that certainly gets paper log or an A or B or D make those changes, this is sounds like there’s some details on the missing here that might be helpful for me to talk about it so feel free to shoot me an email or give me a call.
524
01:10:30.990 –> 01:10:40.860
Chris Turner: But definitely I would recommend calling a jurisdiction saying hey you know what’s going on, we really feel like right, can you talk to me about where the stumbling block is I think you’ll have a lot of success there.
525
01:10:41.970 –> 01:10:54.330
Craig Hart: Alright, the state of Illinois has a duplicate accident reported against us, I did a challenge it’s been four months, and they have not responded, is there a different way to report this challenge for this duplicate crash event.
526
01:10:54.750 –> 01:11:04.980
Chris Turner: Yeah that’s one where, if you remember my slides it had the information for the FMCSA field office absolutely that’s one, so no it shouldn’t be doing it and other folks out there who are doing it sounds like they’re behind.
527
01:11:06.000 –> 01:11:10.920
Chris Turner: that’s one where I would call the FMCSA field office and absolutely show them that that’s a duplicate crash.
528
01:11:11.280 –> 01:11:20.670
Chris Turner: Now, be careful with the crash, and maybe this is something I can help you with to when you say duplicate if it’s the exact same crash same vehicle same everything that likely is the same crash.
529
01:11:21.030 –> 01:11:30.480
Chris Turner: If it is you know I had a terrible one time, where a semi was in listed on three separate crashes and three separate fatalities and it was the worst thing ever.
530
01:11:30.840 –> 01:11:39.900
Chris Turner: And I’ve been part of some 28 copilots, but this one was because everything stayed in motion right so it’s not a separate crash until everything has ceased being in motion.
531
01:11:40.260 –> 01:11:48.360
Chris Turner: So, we had one crash, that was the fatal but somebody else come back up and the first crashes still moving around hit the semi as faithful number two.
532
01:11:48.750 –> 01:11:56.370
Chris Turner: Everything still moving around from that crash it’s the semi that’s fatal number three looks like a duplicate record Those are three individual fatalities.
533
01:11:57.090 –> 01:12:04.740
Chris Turner: Terrible tragic event awful, but it was reported correctly, so not sure which one you have going on, but if it’s legitimately.
534
01:12:05.040 –> 01:12:11.430
Chris Turner: You know one crash that’s a duplicate in the states being pokey with it that’s where you reach out to FMCSA on that list that I gave you.
535
01:12:11.730 –> 01:12:18.480
Chris Turner: reach out to the Illinois division office I know who that’s going to be the division officers Dan Meyer, he was the commander Kansas before me.
536
01:12:18.780 –> 01:12:23.400
Chris Turner: He knows this crash stuff every bit as well as I do, maybe his SPM that you talk to.
537
01:12:23.670 –> 01:12:32.910
Chris Turner: But then they can reach out to the State and help facilitate that conversation could have just got lost in somebody’s email to so you may just need to give the state of call and say they can you can you work this for me.
538
01:12:33.990 –> 01:12:36.240
Chris Turner: But we don’t want duplicates.
539
01:12:37.350 –> 01:12:46.080
Craig Hart: I didn’t know that that was the way that that was handled with the crashes if the vehicles remain in motion and strike additional vehicles that that becomes a potential to become separate crashing.
540
01:12:46.200 –> 01:12:47.970
Chris Turner: Report yeah yeah.
541
01:12:50.310 –> 01:12:58.620
Craig Hart: All right, I was denied prevent ability for a DOT reportable accident, where the other party came into my driver’s lane and hit him on the driver side door.
542
01:12:58.980 –> 01:13:13.260
Craig Hart: I even sent dash cam evidence I was denied due to the way the officer wrote it up, none of the accident descriptions match the right up so essentially it was denied do they have any options to appeal that.
543
01:13:16.500 –> 01:13:29.760
Chris Turner: Yes, so two questions first two answers, first I double check the fire thing that’s not something that can be done in the crash proven ability program so it must be done on whether or not recordable it likely is so you can’t challenge out there.
544
01:13:30.390 –> 01:13:40.590
Chris Turner: to your question, yes, this can be a appealed on the police report their way you would argue that would be through your pictures of the damage or through your mechanics.
545
01:13:41.460 –> 01:13:49.290
Chris Turner: bid of what was repaired and that will show what you had have fixed and where you were struck, although.
546
01:13:50.190 –> 01:13:58.410
Chris Turner: I think I’m hearing it struck basically if the driver side and I’m looking at the at the different types of that that’s not stuck in the rear it’s not side it rear.
547
01:13:58.980 –> 01:14:06.690
Chris Turner: could be wrong direction but think of what they mean by wrong direction, as they mean going the wrong way in your lane of traffic doesn’t mean coming across wrong direction.
548
01:14:07.140 –> 01:14:09.600
Chris Turner: It could be an illegal turn that’s possible.
549
01:14:10.200 –> 01:14:20.370
Chris Turner: So just make sure that you are in the right category and then, if you want to appeal it with that more compelling evidence, when you resubmit, it reference your previous DataQ or reopen it if you can do that once.
550
01:14:20.730 –> 01:14:28.410
Chris Turner: And then you know so submit those pictures, where the damages submit that information from your bid to have your truck or your vehicle fixed.
551
01:14:28.710 –> 01:14:38.130
Chris Turner: And then explain why you believe it should be removed one more time but stay focused on what you’re talking about one point out which one of the categories, it is.
552
01:14:38.460 –> 01:14:45.540
Chris Turner: And then, why it was preventable and just use the language right out of that category struck in the rear as an example.
553
01:14:45.930 –> 01:14:55.890
Chris Turner: The vehicle that struck the CMV driving directly behind the CMV and failed to stop and time that’s the exact language you want to use their own words against them in this context to your benefit.
554
01:14:56.220 –> 01:15:05.850
Chris Turner: But I’m just not sure that that meets the criteria, because it might be kind of a struck in the side example and if it’s not it’s not a to do with the turn it may not qualify.
555
01:15:07.470 –> 01:15:18.480
Craig Hart: All right here, speaking of wrong direction car swerved hit a wall and then spun around and came back towards our driver’s direction the driver of the truck going in the correct direction.
556
01:15:18.900 –> 01:15:31.740
Craig Hart: I was denied my challenge when choosing other motorists driving in the wrong direction, as the reason it needed the other car to be driving South north or vice versa, but the other car spot and came into our lane.
557
01:15:32.760 –> 01:15:34.830
Craig Hart: How would that not be operating in the wrong direction.
558
01:15:35.940 –> 01:15:41.100
Chris Turner: was thinking about these terms are not operating anymore they’re spinning around and they got and putting you in got hit.
559
01:15:41.340 –> 01:15:47.190
Chris Turner: So, operating in the wrong direction, means that driver has to have actively gone the wrong direction the opposing lane of traffic toward you.
560
01:15:48.180 –> 01:15:52.680
Chris Turner: So, two lane road they come over into your land strike you that’s going to count in the wrong direction.
561
01:15:53.040 –> 01:16:06.060
Chris Turner: But, God forbid it happens on the Internet, I was training a trooper and I’m like hey there’s a car in our lane coming down I 35 at us right now, do you maybe see that so that was the morning I got four new flat tires the flat spot at all four of them we chased down that car going.
562
01:16:07.680 –> 01:16:14.790
Chris Turner: down the road eventually I’d say stop. My captain called me next day and says why did you like to flatten eight tires in two days, and I had to explain that situation.
563
01:16:16.230 –> 01:16:17.430
Chris Turner: Because my rookie sucks.
564
01:16:17.640 –> 01:16:18.720
So anyway.
565
01:16:20.250 –> 01:16:26.340
Chris Turner: That is not wrong direction, now they spent out they go in front of you and went the wrong direction Now you can try that.
566
01:16:26.730 –> 01:16:33.540
Chris Turner: As another potentially others usually reserved for you know the skydiver who jumped out of the plan their shoot didn’t open and they landed on top of you.
567
01:16:34.020 –> 01:16:48.450
Chris Turner: And I was trying to look and see if there was another one there that really, really might work and, if you take a look at the CPDP eligibility guide I sent you that should help really go through those, but I don’t.
568
01:16:50.280 –> 01:17:05.370
Chris Turner: I thought there was one that talked about that, but I’m just not seeing it they do have wrong direction, and this might be the one you’re thinking of wrong direction where vehicle is traveling in the wrong direction you get two vehicles traveling in the same direction.
569
01:17:06.390 –> 01:17:19.140
Chris Turner: Another vehicle traveling in the wrong direction so three units total right you’re in the right lane another vehicle beside you in the Left Lane car come in the wrong way hits the car beside you shows it into you and you hit it.
570
01:17:20.190 –> 01:17:26.130
Chris Turner: That is all because the very first vehicle was going in the wrong direction and hit that other car.
571
01:17:26.490 –> 01:17:35.700
Chris Turner: I can actually think of a criterion you fit in in the CPDP without that example so just them spinning out and then ending up in front of you, and you hit them.
572
01:17:36.270 –> 01:17:45.390
Chris Turner: I don’t think that’s going to count as part of their program not saying it shouldn’t I’m not saying it wasn’t preventable because I think it was non preventable it’s just not part of their criteria right now.
573
01:17:47.100 –> 01:18:03.600
Craig Hart: All right, what’s the next level of DataQ review or appeal if the date DataQ request was not correctly processed DataQ representative change the name of the initial violation and the amended have a different charge note was not listed.
574
01:18:04.260 –> 01:18:06.660
Chris Turner: I’m going to come back to that one real quick sorry we must read it again.
575
01:18:06.870 –> 01:18:21.690
Chris Turner: So going out into a CBS lane if you actually look I just found it on the on the guide is not eligible so vehicle spins out into the scene of us is not going to be eligible actually specifically says it so just want to make sure I circled back and close that one off.
576
01:18:21.870 –> 01:18:28.350
Chris Turner: I’m sorry what was that next question there, it was data, though, the DataQ representative change the name of the initial violation.
577
01:18:28.470 –> 01:18:32.160
Craig Hart: And, but the amended of a different charge note was not included.
578
01:18:34.980 –> 01:18:35.640
Craig Hart: So.
579
01:18:35.820 –> 01:18:42.240
Chris Turner: there’s no I’m not sure I have enough there I don’t know if it’s just a dedicated for isn’t adjudicated citation adjudicated.
580
01:18:42.900 –> 01:18:46.290
Craig Hart: Know you’re good so if that’s if that’s what we have is what we have so.
581
01:18:46.350 –> 01:18:49.770
Chris Turner: Yeah and adjudicated citation is going to be where they changed the severity level.
582
01:18:50.460 –> 01:18:58.290
Chris Turner: Changing the name of it I’ve done that, personally, a couple times and what happens is if they amend it, and this is sometimes when it’s not good for the carrier or it could be.
583
01:18:58.620 –> 01:19:06.030
Chris Turner: Where they agree that that violation wasn’t there but based on what you submitted that it was a violation the officer just wrote it down wrong.
584
01:19:06.690 –> 01:19:20.850
Chris Turner: It should be closed with action taken the other type of closure that you’re talking about is supposed to refer to a adjudicated citation, so I think what you’re wanting them to change that to is closed with an action taken.
585
01:19:21.360 –> 01:19:29.370
Chris Turner: Although that might not have been the action you wanted like if they if they didn’t remove it, and they change it to a more appropriate violation that would still be a closed with action taken.
586
01:19:30.000 –> 01:19:32.730
Craig Hart: Okay, she did clarify that it was an adjudicated citation.
587
01:19:32.910 –> 01:19:42.300
Chris Turner: Okay, then yeah then that one should be that’s wrong, it should be closed with the SMS point change that’s going to be number two and that list, I sent you or three number three on the list, I sent you.
588
01:19:43.290 –> 01:19:47.910
Chris Turner: But if not just reach out to them or email them back to them and see if they’ll close it the different the different way.
589
01:19:48.210 –> 01:19:56.040
Chris Turner: It doesn’t matter how it says it’s closed oh so don’t get wound up about that, if they want to change it, as long as they made that change to the actual inspection report.
590
01:19:56.910 –> 01:20:03.630
Chris Turner: In safety net and it’s uploaded, and you can see it doesn’t matter what the data says it just matters that they changed the data appropriately.
591
01:20:04.680 –> 01:20:14.400
Craig Hart: All right, is there a way to dismiss vehicle maintenance violations every single one we submit comes back with a response that the violation was correct, at the time of inspection.
592
01:20:15.000 –> 01:20:23.940
Craig Hart: Even though the light, for example, was on when the driver stepped out to see why he got a violation for the officer claimed that it was off while he was printing the report.
593
01:20:24.390 –> 01:20:36.990
Chris Turner: yeah, so this is one we’re taking that picture the drivers walking back to that picture of troll car if they don’t want you to other than they can take it back in the truck and you have to follow that lawful order still have to do what we’re asked to do by law enforcement me included.
594
01:20:38.250 –> 01:20:40.860
Chris Turner: I’m a normal civilian now, so I got it I do tell me.
595
01:20:42.090 –> 01:20:48.510
Chris Turner: But there’s nothing illegal about you filming anything or taking a picture, obviously I prefaced it was saying hey is alright, if I take a picture.
596
01:20:48.810 –> 01:20:57.030
Chris Turner: Because that comes out a little better, and you do have those COPs who knows, your customers right and video whatever you want up until you can’t if you’re arrested, but.
597
01:20:58.140 –> 01:21:02.400
Chris Turner: Clearly, not the circumstance here now I’m just rambling a little bit, but yeah go back and take that picture.
598
01:21:03.240 –> 01:21:07.410
Chris Turner: Just ask them and then, if not do it as quick as you can on, they leave and go away.
599
01:21:08.130 –> 01:21:20.220
Chris Turner: You know, and try and get that time Stanford date stamp people violations should go away, not here’s one where you really do have to have compelling evidence, this is one of those can picture those pictures I repair bill let’s say you take that in.
600
01:21:21.150 –> 01:21:28.080
Chris Turner: Quick to a repair person and they you know square out a note or an affidavit saying hey this was this is working.
601
01:21:28.500 –> 01:21:35.220
Chris Turner: I don’t know why officer said it wasn’t also remembered you can request the officers video let’s say they didn’t want to review it and they’re being knuckleheads about it.
602
01:21:35.520 –> 01:21:38.370
Chris Turner: And you get a knucklehead data reviewer asked to appeal it.
603
01:21:38.820 –> 01:21:43.440
Chris Turner: get it in somebody else’s hands also take the initiative, whether it’s you or a third party.
604
01:21:43.680 –> 01:21:49.560
Chris Turner: You know, lawyers, make a lot of money doing this, but you can do these on your own pretty easy because you get a three year and a five-year window to do it right.
605
01:21:49.890 –> 01:21:53.700
Chris Turner: If you send a note saying, I want to copy the video I sent you a note back saying that 75 bucks.
606
01:21:53.970 –> 01:22:00.600
Chris Turner: you send us only five bucks they send you the DVD we’re looking at three months’ time now you put the DVD sure sack you can see that light to work in.
607
01:22:00.930 –> 01:22:10.200
Chris Turner: you send that DVD back in with your little clip of that working with your inspection report dang you win right then and there, and they were too lazy to go look at it on the video.
608
01:22:11.070 –> 01:22:21.420
Chris Turner: But and I’ve certainly had that haven’t been a part of that circumstance, where that happened, we changed it up now, in that case it wasn’t because we refused look at the video it’s because we call them look at the video.
609
01:22:22.110 –> 01:22:24.510
Chris Turner: But just ask if they take a look at that video if the.
610
01:22:24.990 –> 01:22:33.210
Chris Turner: driver didn’t have one, meaning that the inspector didn’t have one go back there and take that picture past that unfortunately there’s not a lot, you can do.
611
01:22:33.510 –> 01:22:41.340
Chris Turner: But this really comes down to what we talked about training your drivers knowing what to do right off the BAT or how to engage with that officer to get better information roadside.
612
01:22:41.670 –> 01:22:50.040
Chris Turner: or even getting the officer on his own video because they’re mostly mixed up to say yep it’s the right rear life I can’t let you go look at it right now.
613
01:22:50.460 –> 01:22:58.140
Chris Turner: that’ll help a lot during the DataQ so again it’s really a conversation that your driver should have with the inspector, and if done well.
614
01:22:58.560 –> 01:23:04.950
Chris Turner: done correctly, you know politely, essentially, it should go well on the side of the road don’t argue about it and try and engage them in conversation.
615
01:23:06.150 –> 01:23:12.900
Craig Hart: Mark you’ve been very good today I know you’ve got questions that things you’d like to throw Chris as way.
616
01:23:14.580 –> 01:23:28.260
Mark Rhea: Well, you know we’ve covered so much ground here, I guess, one of the chat comments was will there ever be an expansion of the eligibility criteria for the crash profitability is.
617
01:23:29.520 –> 01:23:30.390
Mark Rhea: locked down.
618
01:23:32.040 –> 01:23:34.020
Chris Turner: I think the answer that’s going to be yes.
619
01:23:35.580 –> 01:23:43.200
Chris Turner: Especially the person that helped create it Judy Lorenzo know him very well jack and Jack Sieberg I think the anticipation, is there will be an expansion.
620
01:23:43.530 –> 01:23:48.330
Chris Turner: I guess, one of the things I didn’t say on the crash proven ability is they’re taking like six months to work, these.
621
01:23:49.320 –> 01:23:59.040
Chris Turner: You know, we tried to tell them Hey be careful what you wish, for I know you want companies to be able to do this but spool up on your side hire staff get ready to go, because you can get waylaid like yeah sure we got it.
622
01:23:59.760 –> 01:24:09.690
Chris Turner: There the government, they know they’re here to help well sure what happens they got waylaid, so there are six months behind playing catch up every day that’s why there’s are taking so long.
623
01:24:10.320 –> 01:24:18.480
Chris Turner: So until they get a handle on that they’re not going to expand it but in conversations I’ve had with them, I think they would like to expand it and they’re what refocus it.
624
01:24:18.720 –> 01:24:26.010
Chris Turner: Really, I mean their goal, just like ours is if it wasn’t preventable and it shouldn’t count toward your crash basic or any other thing you’ve got going on, we don’t want it to.
625
01:24:26.280 –> 01:24:41.310
Chris Turner: it’s bad data if you give us crap data or we record junk data that doesn’t help us make good rules pass FMCSA law enforcement industry doesn’t give us good rules to live by or to make a safer that’s just a dumb rule based on dumb based on bad information we don’t want that either.
626
01:24:42.480 –> 01:24:42.990
Excellent.
627
01:24:44.190 –> 01:24:57.540
Craig Hart: Who all right, well, we have covered a lot of ground today, so thank you everybody for participating in this, we were very excited to put this on this is that has been four months in the making, we had a webinar.
628
01:24:58.140 –> 01:25:08.190
Craig Hart: We talked about road check back with Chris in May, and he brought a DataQ and our chat box lit up by people going data new data new DataQ and we knew we were onto something.
629
01:25:08.880 –> 01:25:13.620
Craig Hart: it’s just unfortunate that CVA a keeps Chris rather very busy.
630
01:25:14.040 –> 01:25:23.970
Craig Hart: Putting on other events have their own additional inspection events and so forth, if this is fine, the chance that our schedules were able to come together and make this happen so Chris Thank you so much.
631
01:25:24.780 –> 01:25:30.690
Craig Hart: This has been a ton of good information today and I appreciate it, those of you who’ve been on the call we have been recording this.
632
01:25:30.990 –> 01:25:39.750
Craig Hart: We will be right, providing the replay and a follow up email to everyone, if the links to the supplementary items that Chris provided to us.
633
01:25:40.380 –> 01:25:51.900
Craig Hart: I know, one of the things accident response, training, and inspection response training that’s what we do, if you have training that you want to provide to drivers to.
634
01:25:52.410 –> 01:25:58.680
Craig Hart: You know, talk about taking footage how to take footage intelligently, the things they should be recording on their cameras and so forth.
635
01:25:59.670 –> 01:26:06.600
Craig Hart: that’s a perfect example of what our platform can be used for with Infinit-I Workforce, if you are not familiar with our platform.
636
01:26:06.960 –> 01:26:12.870
Craig Hart: We do have that available in a trial program so you did you can kick the tires and give that a whirl.
637
01:26:13.770 –> 01:26:19.560
Craig Hart: I believe I have a poll question if you’d like information about that, let us know we can get that to you.
638
01:26:20.190 –> 01:26:30.750
Craig Hart: If you’d like information about our sister company BetterTruckDrivingJobs.com as well for free year of job postings please let us know but but otherwise Chris, Mark.
639
01:26:31.440 –> 01:26:39.930
Craig Hart: Thank you all again so much for your time today, those of you on the call and Chris’s contact information up there, so please, please, please.
640
01:26:41.550 –> 01:26:45.510
Craig Hart: reach out to him he’s a great source of information he can help you out so.
641
01:26:46.800 –> 01:26:59.700
Craig Hart: Please take advantage of him as a resource, you know he’s here to help us out right data and make sure the Government knows exactly what we’re doing correctly, it takes work it takes time but that’s why he’s here that’s his life now so.
642
01:27:00.780 –> 01:27:01.110
Chris Turner: It is.
643
01:27:01.590 –> 01:27:05.100
Mark Rhea: Flies can be called using honey.
644
01:27:05.130 –> 01:27:06.660
Chris Turner: recommend yes.
645
01:27:06.930 –> 01:27:07.680
Chris Turner: yeah work.
646
01:27:09.030 –> 01:27:16.860
Craig Hart: I promise excellent alright, everyone will be safe out there will send a follow up out to you shortly, and thank you again.
647
01:27:17.970 –> 01:27:19.050
Chris Turner: thanks for having me I really.
648
01:27:19.050 –> 01:27:19.410
Chris Turner: enjoy.
649
01:27:19.500 –> 01:27:21.060
Chris Turner: Thank you, Sir, you say.
Infinit-I’s Top Takeaways
In the latest edition of the Fast Forward Expert Roundtable from Vertical Alliance Group, Infinit-I Workforce Solutions, the focus of the discussion was on ‘Dismantling DataQs’. The event was hosted by Craig Hart from the events team at Vertical Alliance Group, with Mark Rhea acting as his co-host. Mark brings over 30 years of industry experience to the table and has worn many hats in the trucking industry. He is also a part of the Board of Directors with North Central Texas Interlink. The guest for the session was Chris Turner, the director of crash and data programs with the Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance.
- The webinar discussed the basics of DataQ operation and what needs to be done for a good result.
- It also covered what should be avoided in DataQ operation.
- The hosts and guests welcomed pre-event questions as well as those asked during the event.
In conclusion, the webinar provided valuable insights into the operation of DataQs and aimed to resolve any queries that attendees might have had on the topic. The hosts and guests leveraged their vast experience in the field to provide a comprehensive overview of the subject matter.
FAQs
What is a DataQ?
A DataQ is a system for filing challenges to Federal and State data that is used by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) to measure a company’s safety performance.
How can I file a DataQ?
A DataQ can be filed electronically through the DataQs system on the FMCSA’s website.
Why should I file a DataQ?
Filing a DataQ can help correct inaccuracies in your company’s safety data, which can impact your company’s Safety Measurement System (SMS) scores.
What kind of violations can I challenge with a DataQ?
You can challenge a wide range of violations, including roadside inspection violations, crash reports, and compliance review violations.
What is the process of challenging a violation through a DataQ?
After filing a DataQ, the appropriate state or federal agency will review the challenge. They may request additional information before making a determination. The results of the challenge will be communicated through the DataQ system.
What is the Crash Preventability Determination Program (CPDP)?
The CPDP is a program that allows motor carriers to challenge the preventability of certain crashes through the DataQ system.
What kinds of crashes are eligible for the CPDP?
A list of eligible crash types can be found in the CPDP Eligibility Guide, which is available on the FMCSA’s website.
How long does it take for a DataQ challenge to be reviewed?
Review times can vary, but currently, the FMCSA is experiencing a backlog and reviews may take up to six months.
What can I do if my DataQ challenge is denied?
If your challenge is denied, you can appeal the decision. The appeal process varies depending on the type of violation being challenged.
What kind of evidence do I need to provide when filing a DataQ?
The type of evidence needed will depend on the violation being challenged. It’s important to provide as much relevant and compelling evidence as possible to support your challenge.
What is an adjudicated citation?
An adjudicated citation is a citation that has been challenged in court and resulted in a conviction, a plea of guilty or no contest, a forfeiture of bail, or a payment of a fine.
Can I challenge an adjudicated citation through a DataQ?
Yes, adjudicated citations can be challenged through the DataQ system.
What is the role of the DataQ representative?
The DataQ representative is responsible for reviewing challenges and making determinations based on the provided evidence.
Can I request the officer’s video footage for my DataQ challenge?
Yes, you can request the officer’s video footage as part of your challenge. This can provide valuable evidence for your case.
What is the impact of a successful DataQ challenge on my company’s SMS score?
A successful DataQ challenge can lead to the removal or amendment of violation data, which can improve your company’s SMS score.
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