Webinar Replay #59: Drug Clearinghouse RTD Process

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Good afternoon everybody. Welcome to the Infinit-I Fast Forward Webinar Series. My name is Steve Kessler, Ill be the host for the program today and boy do we have an important topic today. The FMCSA drug Clearinghouse. We’re going to talk about that and a lot of the details about the return to duty program. This seems to be a topic that has raised a lot of active, questions and miss understanding. So hopefully we will be able to clear some of that out today. So welcome and I appreciate coming. Why don’t you jump onto the chat real quick and put in who you are, what company you are with and maybe where you are located so that we can know who is out there. While yawl are doing that I am going to introduce my co-host. Those of you have been on our programs before will know Mark Rhea. Marks been working with us for quite a while now. He is a veteran trucking company executive for 35 plus years. He is a certified CDL and commercial vehicle inspector or training. Spent a lot of time in risks and dealing with a lot of the same things you all deal with. What do you think of today program Mark? I think its extremely important today. You were saying how long I have been in this business. I can clearly remember when they started doing

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Drug screens back in the I guess the 80s or so. And it’s come a long way, but, we now have the Clearinghouse.

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I’m sure some of you had a little rough start with the Clearinghouse. I’m I’m gonna think it’s normalizing.

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I’m sure Grady will address some of the ongoing issues there at the at the Clearinghouse but this return to duty status.

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I’ve got some numbers that like 31%, increase in marijuana violations in 2022.

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The numbers are staggering. And we’ve got to figure out how to to make all this work so I’m really looking forward to Grady’s presentation.

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I know we got a lot of questions. We try to get all the questions answered that we can, but we gotta get through this most important.

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Presentation this afternoon. Thank you all.

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Great. Thanks, Mark. thank you all for typing in the chat. I see a bunch of you.

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Have joined and that’s great to see. I see some, current customers out there, so too.

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So, y’all welcome. Let me introduce our guest today. today we have Grady Phillips.

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Grady currently is the chief revenue officer for WorkforceQA isn’t that right Grady?

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Yes, thanks for having me.

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Yeah, Grady’s, 20 year veteran in the drug and alcohol industry. So I don’t think I could have found anybody that knows more about this probably than Grady does.

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So he’s really become an industry leader. He speaks on drug testing, DOT physical, sleep apnea,

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So he’s really kind of tuned in to all this. So Grady, thank you so much for coming and if you’re all set, I’m going to turn the program over to you.

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Absolutely. And again, thanks to both of you. Thanks to everybody on today. We do hope that you learned something.

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I’m sure there will be tons of questions and we’ll be do our very best to get to them as we go through.

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Hopefully we’ll be able to address some of those up front. So first slide just covering the the same information.

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Steve, Mark, myself on the the team today and we’ll jump right in. So today the return to duty program details a little bit about WorkforceQA.

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We always want you to know who’s talking to you. We’ve been in business for over 20 years.

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As Mark said, you know, the drug and alcohol business has been around for a while now. We are full MRO / TPA, so that’s a medical review officer and a third party administrator nationwide all types of testing.

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And we do about 800,000 tests every year. We’ve been doing that for a long time.

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So we are one of the industry leaders in this in this area. We have the industry best post accident service.

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We offer secondary review for DOT physicals and that’s something that’s very very timely with the changes as Steve mentioned earlier the DVD physicals that the guidance for those has made a complete change in the last few weeks.

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We also now offer background services where a credit reporting agency and perform all background services that go along with DOT and non DOT a like.

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But today, we’re talking about the Clearinghouse. So how did we get here? Right?

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That’s a question. Mark, brought up the history. A lot of us have been around this industry for a long time.

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You know, what, what the Clearinghouse, what’s going on. Well, the drug and alcohol testing and the DOT started in 91.

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The regulations were passed in late eighties like Mark said but we really started with the DOT drug and alcohol in 91.

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Every year we have had positive drugs ever since then you know for many many years positive drugs and we remove drivers done a very good job when a driver is has a positive test being removed from that company.

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The problem was that we had a gap in tracking those violations across companies. If somebody left a company due to a positive drug test or refusal, all they had to do was conveniently forget to list that on their experience and it was a challenge to find that that person had had a negative drug and alcohol experience with you know positive test as they moved on.

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And The Clearinghouse was actually conceived many, many years ago. But a long time ago, we were a lot more worried about Big Brother than we are today.

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And the idea of the government having a list of our clients or our customers or our drug test, our drivers was a big problem.

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And so it kind of gets shelved for many years. But it’s been, you know, is worked on all through the 2015s, that took a long time and it actually started January, the sixth, 2020s.

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The, you know, it finally came out and these are some of the misconceptions about the Clearinghouse that I hope that we address in a little while is the privacy concerns, how they got around that, how they actually made this into a good program.

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It’s important to know though. The Clearinghouse did not change any violations. The Clearinghouse is just tracking those violations.

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And so the violations that we see on the Clearinghouse are just representative of what’s always been out there.

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That said, since the claim has started, we’ve hit over 250,000 violations that it has tracked.

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It really shown a spotlight on what’s going on with drug and alcohol.

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So how many violations? 250,000? As of December 30 first according to the Clearinghouse report it’s actually 251,438 for those of you who like specifics.

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It’s clear that most of these violations are in fact drug positive. So if you look at the chart to the right, the light blue color, these are drug positives and you can see it broken down by year.

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That you know started in 2020 kind of got its feet underneath it, 2021 ramped up, 2022 and 2023 have been fairly consistent with about 67,000 – 68,000 violations per year.

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Remember these have always been here. It’s just now we need to see them. The darker blue and then the really dark blue respectively are the violations the refusals and then actual knowledge which we would like to cover a little bit as we go on the details of actual knowledge where an employer actually posts a violation based on, literally, actual knowledge of drug use.

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The job of the employer is to check for these violations with queries or searches. That’s the whole point of the caring house.

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What kind of violations are we looking for? And hopefully I’m covering a lot of ground here that people already know.

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So I’ll kind of write through it but then when we have questions anybody has a question this a lot of this we can refer back to so what are violations that go into the Clearinghouse, right?

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So an employer. Or their TPA, but the TPA can help, but at the end of the day, the employer is responsible for posting violations due to an alcohol confirmation test of over .04

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Or a refusal. So alcohol positives and refusal must be reported by the employer.

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If a person refuses to take a drug test and refusals can be complicated, right? A refusal to take a random or post accident or reasonable suspicion test those are easy.

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Refusals to take a pre-employment will cover that in a little bit in a little while.

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And then lastly, actual knowledge, which we’ve already talked about and we’ll get into more detail.

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These are all requirements for the employer. Now, not the MRO. The MROs job is to report positives, adulterated to substituted drug tests, and then also some refusals.

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So specifically, if somebody goes in for a test, they’re there for the full 3 hours. It might possibly because they have a biological condition known as a shy bladder or they can be a refusal.

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And that’s where the MRO steps in to help determine which of those 2 it is.

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So what are the common issues that we find with violations?

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Reporting a pre-employment refusal. That’s what we just mentioned. The pre-employment test starts when the applicant touches the specimen cup.

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If you tell somebody to go take a pre-employment test and they don’t do it, that’s not a refusal.

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If somebody drives all the way to your office and then they decide to leave that’s not a refusal.

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If they go to a medical clinic, a collection site and they look in the window, they walk in the door, they even sign their name on the register.

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It’s not a refusal. Until that process starts, it’s not a refusal. However, When it starts, when they’ve touched that cup, it’s treated just like any other drug test.

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You can’t leave because your grandmother called. You can’t leave because your kids need to be picked up for school.

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You can’t leave because you feel sick. That test is on. It’s a DOT test and it must go to completion.

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If a driver stays the full 3 hours and they can’t provide that specimen, they’d go through those shy bladder regulations like we just talked about.

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Those who If you read the regulations, you have to work with your MRO to determine if it is a refuse or not.

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We’re not going to go into the details of a shy bladder here, but it’s important to know.

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This is a situation. The 3 hours is key. If the donor applicant stays 3 hours, you have to go down the shy bladder.

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If they leave prior to that, it should be a refusal. And you should never give someone permission to leave.

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As an employer or any of your manager. They leave prior to those 3 hours it should be considered a refusal. There are no do overs.

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There are no situations where, oh, I just can’t pee today. Let me come back tomorrow.

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It’s doesn’t work that way. A DOT test is you start and you finish it.

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The actual knowledge is very specific. And it’s different from reasonable suspicion. It’s different from training or testing, right?

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Actual knowledge, I think that’s what’s on the next slide. Yeah. Actual odds of this is directly out of the regulations.

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It means actual knowledge that is based on the employer’s direct observation of the employee so you see someone using alcohol while on duty or you see someone using illegal drugs, cocaine, marijuana, some other drug that they don’t have a prescription for, you know, illicit drugs.

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Another one is you can be informed information provided by the driver’s previous employer. We don’t see that one very often.

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By far and large, the question is, my driver just got a ticket. Is that a actual knowledge?

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Well, here’s the key for a traffic citation. They must be driving a commercial motor vehicle.

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And they must be, it has to be a moving violation. So if you look down to the bottom they have to be charged driving a commercial, motored vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or controlled substances.

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Possession is not actual knowledge. I know that’s tricky, but this is, you know, it’s a DOT regulation.

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So if somebody gets a ticket for possession of paraphernalia or even substances, that’s not actual knowledge.

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It has to be a moving violation while under the influence. As an employer reporting actual knowledge is very important, right?

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As an MRO, one of the things that we do that makes our job important to the world is the belief that we are keeping the roadways and the air and the rail.

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A little safer. We want to get these people off the road that are using drugs to illegally along with all the things that go along with it.

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Employers, I know that we have a lot of employers out there. Your job is the same.

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And this is how you have to help enforce that with the actual knowledge and doing it correctly. You don’t want to, you don’t want to put anybody violation in where it’s not justified, but on these actual knowledge, as you saw from that chart earlier, there’s not that many that are put in.

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There’s a lot more opportunity when you when you see somebody to do something. I’ll get off my soapbox now about actual knowledge, but you can tell that’s a, that’s a passion of mine.

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So what happens after a violation? So some of these things happen, a positive drug test, a refusal, a actual knowledge.

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The driver must be removed from safety sensitive duties and the employer, as a lot of you guys out there, have to give a listing of SAPs.

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And I think the regulations actually say listing by SAPs in their area. These days that’s gotten a lot wider because SAPs can’t practice in a much bigger area.

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And the substance speech professional does not have to meet face-to-face. That’s a COVID era change.

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They can now meet virtually or whatever works for the SAP so they can they can operate in a lot bigger area than they used to.

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The employer is not required to terminate the driver, although most do. You know, very few do we see they actually maintain the driver through the SAP process most to get terminated you have a listing of that same piece and wash their hands.

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This part is important. We see this a lot. The employer is not required to provide SAP treatment services.

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We’ve heard that a lot of times where the driver thinks that they have to pay employers call and say we’ve had this violation and that we’re, you know, this SAP is wanting us to pay for it. That’s not at all true. The top 3 are what you must do.

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You don’t have to provide SAP treatment or services or cost.

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All right, let’s look just a minute at the Clearinghouse report. So this one is the most recent one as of January first unless they’ve come out within the last couple of days.

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And this is where we, you know, get a lot of our numbers. The Clearinghouse report is free.

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It’s available on the Clearinghouse. If anybody wants to take a look, they run a month or 2 behind a lot of times.

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But this one goes through January, the 1st. And if a lot of you may notice, look at that 226,000 and you say well that’s not 250,000 right it’s key to know that some drivers have more than one violation in the Clearinghouse.

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And so rough numbers that means about 25,000 or more close to that number have more than one violation in the Clearinghouse.

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Of all the drivers that have ever been put in the Clearinghouse ever since January 6th, 2024 70% of them are still in a prohibited status.

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Let that say again, 70% of them have not gone through this SAP process, have not gone to a returned to duty, they’re still prohibited.

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So if you’re an employer that’s doing queries that’s checking people, you know that there are a 158,000 drivers out there.

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That are danger, right? That should be an encouragement to do these queries to make sure that you check drivers that are out there.

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Of all those drivers 10% have completed the SAP program but they’re still prohibited and that means that you know somebody’s paid money they’ve gone through the SAP process.

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And that means that you know somebody’s paid money they’ve gone through the SAP process but they haven’t either tried to or haven’t been successful.

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Finding an employer that will bring them back with an open violation. And that’s hard. That’s something that we hear a lot of it.

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Only 7% total drivers have gone through the complete process and finished it up. 7% out of all of these in January, 2024.

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All right, so how can a driver get back to work, right? So once a violation is posted, the driver must successfully complete this return to duty (RTD) program that we’re talking about today before resuming safety-sensitive duties for the FMCSA.

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Technically for any DOT agency, right? But we’re pretty much talking about Clearinghouse today, which is currently limited to trucking to FMCSA.

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Once they do that, a carrier must agree to hire them and perform a return to duty test. Now one of the questions that we had that we were, you know, frequently asked questions.

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Is, do they also have to do a pre-employment test? And the answer is no.

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This is the only situation where one test takes the place of the another.

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If you perform a return to duty test, that that covers the same work as a pre-employment test.

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The key difference is that the return to duty test and I don’t know if this is in my next point or not.

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Now, a return to duty test must be observed. Must be directly observed. And I think everybody out here probably knows what that means, but directly observed test means that someone of the same gender will physically watch the year and come out of that person’s body.

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There’s a little bit more to it than that, but it’s very specific, right? All returns to duty tests must be observed.

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And then lastly, in order for the driver to finish that plan, the carrier must or the employer must complete all the follow-up testing according to the SAP plan.

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Now the driver is never supposed to see the SAP plan. It’s not supposed to know how many tests they have to deal with.

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It’s the carriers responsibility to administer those tests according to the plan.

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What are the 6 steps, right? We’re talking about the RTD process. So here they are.

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Once someone has had a violation, here’s how you get back to work. Number 1, the SAP request is sent.

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So the employer gets a list of SAPs as we talked about the driver goes onto the Clearinghouse under their account and they select and they select an SAP from the list the company gave them or any SAP out there they’re not limited to the list that the employer gave them.

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There are lots of resources out there to find an SAP. Once they find an SAP and they they reach out to the SAP through the Clearinghouse called the SAP, whichever way they go.

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The SAP agrees to provide services for them. At this point, the SAP goes into the Clearinghouse, accepts the request from the driver.

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That locks them together. Once an SAP has been designated, a driver can’t change their mind.

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You have to follow through with the SAP that you designated. You can’t change SAPs midstream.

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You can’t, you are locked into that SAP as the driver. So the driver then performs an interview.

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A face-to-face, whatever different SAPs are different, but they perform an initial assessment to determine the scope of the issue that’s going on.

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They then give the driver a list of education or classes or therapy, you know, different ones or different ones.

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What we see a lot of times are online videos that the drivers have to watch. The SAP is not supposed to have any financial interest in those videos and so it’s a lot of variation out there how those videos are produced or in person training again a lot of different ways and theoretically it’s a case-by-case right the SAP should analysis on the significance of the problem and provide appropriate therapy.

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Once that has been completed. The the SAP then logs back into the Clearinghouse and says that the Well, that the initial asset, the initial, I’m ahead of myself.

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The initial assessment is completed. Then after the driver goes through that testing and completes everything, they meet back with the SAP and the SAP says, okay, you’re done with my part of the program.

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You are eligible for the return to duty test. And if you remember back to the Clearinghouse report we looked at.

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That’s where a good number of these drivers are stopped. They have completed the SAP program, but they haven’t found a carrier to hire them back.

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Once they find the carrier. The carrier produce has them perform a return to duty test that has to be observed.

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At this point you’ll see the color of the circular color changes. Once you perform the return to duty test as a driver, you are no longer prohibited in the Clearinghouse.

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You are allowed to operate at CMV. You’ve gone through SAP training. You’ve gone through an assessment and you have performed a returns to duty test.

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Now it’s on the carrier to administer those additional follow-up tests as prescribed by the SAP until it’s done.

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I’d left to step out. I’m sorry. Once you perform that return to duty test, it’s the employer’s job to go to the Clearinghouse and the TPA can do this for them but it’s same employer’s job to go to the Clearinghouse.

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And just advise that that employee, the driver has completed a return to duty test. The actual test results don’t get uploaded.

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It’s very easy. It takes just a second. If you’ve performed a query, it’s the same thing with the RTD test.

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You enter in the information, the CDL number, the state, the driver’s name and their CDL number and their date of birth it verifies you upload a return to duty test notification boom they are they are cleared to drive.

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And that’s the carrier’s responsibility not the SAP’s responsibility.

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Yes, sir. You are correct. You are correct. So if you look at step 1, that’s the driver’s responsibility.

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Steps 2 and 3 and 4 are the well the 2 is where the SAP gets online and agrees to do that so 2 and 3 kind of go together but 2 3 and 4 are the Sap’s responsibility.

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Step 5 is the carrier’s responsibility and then once all the testing is complete, number 6 is also the carrier’s responsibility to log into the Clearinghouse and just advise that all of that testing is complete.

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And again, number 6, it takes less than a minute to do this. You’re not uploading copies of tests.

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You’re not uploading anything specific. You’re just advising the plan is complete.

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This is, you know, the other thing about on this slide that I think is important is that the information of a violation.

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Is retained for a minimum of 5 years. So if a person never gets passed up for or never even starts the process, they stay on the Clearinghouse is a prohibited driver forever.

00:21:36.000 –> 00:21:49.000
So but once they complete 6, step 6, The word is it encapsulates that violation and it stays on the Clearinghouse for a total of 5 years from either the date of the when the SAP is done or if that’s taken longer than 5 years, then it would go off as soon as the follow-up completion test is done.

00:21:49.000 –> 00:21:57.000
So minimum 5 years but it can be longer.

00:21:57.000 –> 00:21:58.000
Okay

00:21:58.000 –> 00:22:02.000
And the prohibited status is automatically triggered. At step 5.

00:22:02.000 –> 00:22:04.000
The the non-prohibited status. Yeah. Not prohibited. Right.

00:22:04.000 –> 00:22:08.000
At the completion of step, the non, is, is stop, step 5, not step 6.

00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:17.000
I don’t remember if I put this slide. Step 6, you are you are able to drive a step up, but I’ll tell this is this is something I don’t think I got this slide in here.

00:22:17.000 –> 00:22:24.000
Maybe I did. It’s worth saying twice even if I didn’t. When you perform a query, a pre employment query on a driver.

00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:30.000
And it pops up not prohibited. You’ve got to click that details button at the bottom left of the query.

00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:34.000
You have to. That’s where you see if a driver is in an SAP program or not.

00:22:34.000 –> 00:22:44.000
If you don’t click that button and you just take it to be non-prohibited and you let them drive and a year goes by and you realize that you’ve been letting them drive without a follow-up program or God forbid there’s an accident.

00:22:44.000 –> 00:22:47.000
That you’re you’re liable for that. So you’ve got to click that details button.

00:22:47.000 –> 00:22:54.000
I hope I put that slot in there. If not, we can shoot that out later on. But anybody that’s performed a pre-employment query knows what I’m talking about.

00:22:54.000 –> 00:22:57.000
You’ll see that down at the bottom left it says details. They say the devil’s in the details, right?

00:22:57.000 –> 00:23:11.000
Click the detail, see if there’s a devil in there. Driver’s responsibility. Their job is to request an SAP from the list provided and this this is rehashing what we just talked about right so we’ll go through this fairly quickly.

00:23:11.000 –> 00:23:19.000
They then have to participate in the SAP program. They then complete the applicable education of treatment prescribed by the SAP.

00:23:19.000 –> 00:23:26.000
This is a hard one. They have to find the employee, a employer rather, willing to get them back into service and perform that returns duty test.

00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:41.000
This one is harder than you think. They have to pass that return to duty test after they’ve gone through the SAP paid the money found an employer some of them don’t make it past this step to pass the return to duty test. Once they do that, they have to pass all the required follow up tests.

00:23:41.000 –> 00:23:48.000
All of these follow up tests also have to be directly observed. Think about a drug test as kind of like a trust concept.

00:23:48.000 –> 00:23:59.000
Most tests that we do, you give a driver. Right to privacy, at least the first part of the test, if they if they if they give it back to you within a good specimen, but for return to duty and follow up test, they don’t have that right to privacy.

00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:15.000
The employer is tasked to test them. And to, you know. You want to have them prove that they have truly gotten back away from illicit drugs and or alcohol.

00:24:15.000 –> 00:24:24.000
Hey, Grady, kind of the topic you’re on. If I have a question about So we don’t have to attach any of the follow up drug tests.

00:24:24.000 –> 00:24:29.000
Do they have to attach? Information about follow up test.

00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:37.000
No, sir. If anybody follows any of the new regulations, the regulation was written by Gian Marshall and Gian and I are fairly close.

00:24:37.000 –> 00:24:53.000
She’s no longer with the Clearinghouse. We had an in-depth discussion about this and her statement was this.

00:24:53.000 –> 00:24:56.000
The Clearinghouse is a government entity and therefore it is subject to a right of information. And so if you upload all that sensitive documentation somebody has access to so we don’t put that information on the website of the Clearinghouse.

00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:59.000
Okay. Thanks.

00:24:59.000 –> 00:25:00.000
So the SAP responsibilities, they have to agree to provide that service. They don’t have to.

00:25:00.000 –> 00:25:16.000
Their job is to agreed there are actually if you look at that Clearinghouse report there are a significant number of SAPs that have declined to work with someone for whatever reason that’s their their jurisdiction there.

00:25:16.000 –> 00:25:27.000
Once they do agree to provide that service though they have to recommend the applicable education treatment. Then they evaluate the driver after that treatment is done and they make a follow testing plan which again does not go to the driver.

00:25:27.000 –> 00:25:34.000
It goes to the employer. The driver is never supposed to see their follow-up testing plan. They’re not supposed to know how many tests that they’re going to be required to take.

00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:40.000
It’s supposed to be all surprised. They then give that plan to the return to do the employer.

00:25:40.000 –> 00:25:44.000
And that’s pretty much the end of the process. They’re supposed to follow up with the driver.

00:25:44.000 –> 00:25:52.000
I don’t know how much that actually gets done after that. The employer responsibilities and I feel like that’s pretty much everybody on the discussion today.

00:25:52.000 –> 00:25:58.000
Like we said, they have to notify the Clearinghouse of a negative return to duty test, not the actual uploaded the result.

00:25:58.000 –> 00:26:04.000
You log on, you just advise that on this date they had a negative drug negative return to duty test and it’s that easy.

00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:15.000
They do have to comply with the SAP plan. Anyone out here who is hiring SAP drivers or contemplating hiring SAP drivers, you know, highlight this one.

00:26:15.000 –> 00:26:20.000
You have to have that plan and you have to follow it. If you don’t follow that plan, you are liable.

00:26:20.000 –> 00:26:28.000
If there’s an accident, if there’s an audit, you are, you are hired by definition, you are hiring a liability and that’s okay as long as you manage it, right?

00:26:28.000 –> 00:26:35.000
You have to follow this SIP plan. You’re going, responsibility is also to notify the Clearinghouse when that SAP plan is completed.

00:26:35.000 –> 00:26:38.000
And again, like I said, that’s as easy as uploading the negative return to duty test.

00:26:38.000 –> 00:26:58.000
You just notified the date that it was done and it’s that easy. If you hire a driver that’s part of an SAP plan, they had a return to do the employer already or 2 or 3 or 4 you you do acquire those previous results from the previous employer or if you don’t get those, start the plan all over again.

00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:02.000
You can’t take the driver’s statement, you know what I’ve already done a dozen tests and just write it down and go on with it.

00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:05.000
You have to have that documentation. Even though you don’t physically have to upload that to the Clearinghouse, you have a follow-up plan that may come into question.

00:27:05.000 –> 00:27:15.000
You got to make sure that you have copies of all the results that are required.

00:27:15.000 –> 00:27:18.000
Now in the follow-up testing that can be unique and different.

00:27:18.000 –> 00:27:25.000
Yep, yeah, I think I go into a little bit of that the minimum for a follow-up testing plan is 6 tests over a year.

00:27:25.000 –> 00:27:36.000
That’s the middle. They can go up to 5 years and SAP can ask somebody to employer to do follow-up testing for 5 years anywhere from 1 to 5 years and an unlimited number of tests.

00:27:36.000 –> 00:27:39.000
And you see a lot of variation there. You’ll see a lot of those minimum tests. We’ve seen several that go the full 5 years that want a monthly test every 5 years.

00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:50.000
And, you know, theoretically it’s due to the severity of the problem that the driver may have when they’re evaluated.

00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:57.000
So just a handful of notes of different things that have come up as part of this discussion. One thing you want to do is if you’re contemplating, check with your insurance.

00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:07.000
We understand that some insurances are, it may be a significant premium to hire somebody with the liability. Some insurances don’t care at all.

00:28:07.000 –> 00:28:11.000
So how you’re set up. It’s just a good idea to double check with that. This is another key point.

00:28:11.000 –> 00:28:28.000
If you if you have a driver that has a violation positive drug test refusal or whatever they go away and they go through that SAP plan you do not have to perform that return to duty test and we’ve had employers that are pressured to do this by SAPs and by drivers.

00:28:28.000 –> 00:28:42.000
Unless you are bringing them back to work. It’s not your place to do a return to duty test.

00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:46.000
Don’t do it unless you’re actually going to work that person, right? The reason they want that, remember that step 5 as soon as they turn green they can go apply to other companies and they might find somebody that shows they’re not prohibited.

00:28:46.000 –> 00:28:52.000
They want you to give them that test so that they have that green light to go out in the world and start advertising their services.

00:28:52.000 –> 00:28:53.000
Even if you’re not going to hire them, even if you’re not gonna.

00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:56.000
But unless you’re going to start, yeah, only if you’re going to hire, exactly.

00:28:56.000 –> 00:29:03.000
Only do the test if you’re going to hire. And likewise, only an employer can order an RTD test.

00:29:03.000 –> 00:29:14.000
Now, when I say you can order, what I mean is your authorized order. We see medical clinics, all I think we had one this week, where a driver walked into a medical clinic and they did a return to duty test and it didn’t it wasn’t even on an employer to do that.

00:29:14.000 –> 00:29:34.000
They ran into issues because they couldn’t, they couldn’t upload it to the Clearinghouse because they’re not an employer but you know they have the they can check a box they can get that done but by regulation only the employer can order that It has to be directly observed and does take the place of the free employment test as we talk about.

00:29:34.000 –> 00:29:40.000
Couple more notes and we’ve said this several times. Now the reason I harp on this this is an this is audit bait.

00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:47.000
You get audited, you’ve got an SAP driver and that auditor comes in, they start looking at those chain of custody and they’re not observed, you’re paying for that.

00:29:47.000 –> 00:29:48.000
That’s a big no no. Make sure that it’s super easy. It’s a checkbox on the chain of custody.

00:29:48.000 –> 00:29:57.000
It’s a checkbox on the chain of custody. Says that all tests have to be directly observed just make sure that all tests have to be directly observed just make sure that all those are done.

00:29:57.000 –> 00:30:02.000
And again, SAP plans and follow-up tests are not stored in the Clearinghouse because it’s public record.

00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:09.000
While the return, and this was somebody asks this question, returned to duty tests, they take the place of the pre-employment.

00:30:09.000 –> 00:30:23.000
But follow-up testing is completely separate from the random program. Every DOT employer carrier that is subject to drugging alcohol rules has to have the random program testing for FMCSA it’s 50% at the drug and 10% alcohol this year.

00:30:23.000 –> 00:30:31.000
If somebody is subject to an SAP plan, a plan, as you know, a return to duty plan, those tests that you have to do are completely separate.

00:30:31.000 –> 00:30:35.000
So if they get selected for a random And you want to give them a follow up? That’s 2 different tests.

00:30:35.000 –> 00:30:39.000
You could technically do those in the same day, but that’s pointless. Use those follow-up.

00:30:39.000 –> 00:30:44.000
You’re trying to ascertain that this person truly is, you know, on the straight and narrow.

00:30:44.000 –> 00:30:47.000
So don’t do them on the same day. Spread those things out.

00:30:47.000 –> 00:30:50.000
But they are part of the of the pool. Of the of the pool.

00:30:50.000 –> 00:30:56.000
Yes, sir. They are. Once, once you have hired them with a return to duty test, they are part of the pool.

00:30:56.000 –> 00:30:57.000
Okay.

00:30:57.000 –> 00:31:00.000
Exactly right. And they are subject to random testing. Right.

00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:05.000
All right, so how long does somebody ask? How long does an SAP program cost and how, how long does it take?

00:31:05.000 –> 00:31:15.000
So it can be done in a few days if you get with the SAP go through the evaluation watch your videos go to the class or 2 we’ve seen you know week or less we can see people that are ready for an RTD test.

00:31:15.000 –> 00:31:34.000
SAPs the cost very widely from what we’ve seen it’s about $500 we remember we are an MRO / TPA so we don’t really concentrate on the SAP part that’s not We could do that, but it’s not, we never felt it’s right to tell people they’re positive for a test and then take their money to get back through the program. So we don’t get into that area too much.

00:31:34.000 –> 00:31:40.000
We don’t price that out, but it’s about 500 bucks. If anybody in the chat knows differently, feel free to correct me on that.

00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:44.000
The driver educator.

00:31:44.000 –> 00:31:45.000
Oh

00:31:45.000 –> 00:31:49.000
Be great, you can. Can the charges for the follow up test required? Be given to the driver.

00:31:49.000 –> 00:31:50.000
You can pass those charges up.

00:31:50.000 –> 00:31:54.000
Yes, sir. Absolutely. And there’s a couple of ways to do that. What does not work well is tell the driver to go to a clinic and get a follow-up test done and pay for it.

00:31:54.000 –> 00:32:04.000
The reason for that is because when the driver goes in the result goes to the clinic. It’s hard to get to the driver.

00:32:04.000 –> 00:32:21.000
It’s hard to get from the driver. But So what works better is to actually have the test done on your account through your MRO and TPA so that those results come to you and if you’ve got a good MRO / TPA you should be able to get the MIS reporting all that’s together and then just take the cost out of the driver’s paycheck or you know one thing that

00:32:21.000 –> 00:32:29.000
we’ve talked to a couple of companies about is negotiate a lower you know mileage rate or hourly rate or every paying the person

00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:33.000
to account for that. You know, to make sure that they know this is something that they’re, they’re subject to.

00:32:34.000 –> 00:32:38.000
But yeah, there’s, there’s, there’s, regulations do not address payment for this testing.

00:32:38.000 –> 00:32:39.000
Okay.

00:32:39.000 –> 00:32:40.000
So you certainly can if you want to. Again, the education or treatment can take a few days and this is the SAP.

00:32:40.000 –> 00:32:58.000
Mandated treatment for the driver. So, you know, we’ve seen it take a few weeks as well and a lot of times I think that’s just the driver that doesn’t get around to doing the education most of the time it’s not a tremendous amount of education that they’re prescribed to.

00:32:58.000 –> 00:33:07.000
The hardest part seems to be finding an employer willing to hire return to duty driver. And I don’t know how many people out here are.

00:33:07.000 –> 00:33:17.000
You know, actually doing this already, contemplating doing it. I can tell you that, you know, a lot of the the companies that do the return to duty program, they find that they’ll hire a driver.

00:33:17.000 –> 00:33:26.000
The driver won’t stick around through the entirety of the program. You know, they go through that effort, like you said, Steve, they’ll go through a couple of tests, get a green light, then they’ll disappear.

00:33:26.000 –> 00:33:30.000
A lot of them also, they’re, you know, you have somebody’s positive for a drug test.

00:33:30.000 –> 00:33:43.000
It’s not 100% correction going through this SAP program. So there are a lot that will fail some either the return to duty test or one of the follow- tests or random tests, you find a much higher positivity rate.

00:33:43.000 –> 00:33:44.000
Okay. That’s great.

00:33:44.000 –> 00:33:55.000
Amongst RTD drivers than you do. Through the overall employee pool. And as we’ve already said, the minimal follow-up plan requires 6 tests over a year, but the SAP can direct that testing for up to 5 years.

00:33:55.000 –> 00:34:00.000
All right, a lot of people say, all right, well, what if I just don’t do that?

00:34:00.000 –> 00:34:04.000
What, what if we just keep going, you know, keep our head down, get the job done, get the load across.

00:34:04.000 –> 00:34:14.000
The book says $2,500 per violation when we look at the actual negotiated rates are a little bit less than that we see you know $1,800 or so per violation that we’re had been assessed by DOT.

00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:16.000
I think a lot of that is that the DOT is not trying to just destroy companies over this. I think they want companies to be compliant.

00:34:16.000 –> 00:34:27.000
So I think they’re being a little lenient still. We saw a couple of years where this wasn’t levied at all.

00:34:27.000 –> 00:34:31.000
But the most important part is this. If you have somebody that’s prohibited in the Clearinghouse.

00:34:31.000 –> 00:34:40.000
And you hired them without doing a query to check to see if they’re prohibited or in a follow-up plan or if you don’t perform that follow-up plan and something happens.

00:34:40.000 –> 00:34:46.000
It’s done. You know, I didn’t bother to check with any lawyers I would say it’s a hundred percent loss of a lawsuit.

00:34:46.000 –> 00:34:57.000
If the driver has a violation. And you could have known about it. You know, somebody gets hurt, something gets hurt, whatever, but somebody gets hurt, it’s that’s a bad deal.

00:34:57.000 –> 00:35:00.000
This is why you want to do this. It’s just because we all want the roads to be safe.

00:35:00.000 –> 00:35:05.000
I think everybody here in the call, you know, you’re working with Infinit-I, you work with the good MRO / TPA, your goal of safety.

00:35:05.000 –> 00:35:09.000
Your goal is not just compliance. We want to have a good road.

00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:15.000
So what other programs? Well, this one is, we’re nearing the end other than whatever questions we have here.

00:35:15.000 –> 00:35:19.000
So, but we see a lot of people that are about Clearinghouse, what are the programs? When you log into the Clearinghouse, you’re using login.gov

00:35:19.000 –> 00:35:35.000
And this is a centralized credentialing database that the government has used. A lot of you have realized lately just recently the the FMCSA portal which used to be one of the worst design products in the entire world.

00:35:35.000 –> 00:35:46.000
The website was horrible. Has now gone to using login.gov. When it works, it works great. If you missed the boat on that, if you mess something up, it’s still really hard to get the portal fixed.

00:35:46.000 –> 00:35:53.000
But now, login.gov works with both your Clearinghouse and your FMCSA portal and even other sites that are government-based.

00:35:53.000 –> 00:35:55.000
The other one is the portal. So here’s a screenshot of what the FMCSA portal looks like.

00:35:55.000 –> 00:36:06.000
As you can tell, this is not exactly the newest website on the market, but they did fix the back end where it was logging in was just terribly bad now where it uses login.gov.

00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:12.000
The portal is the website that links in enforcement, FMCSA, and carriers together.

00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:29.000
You can see your inspections. You can do your MCS 150 forms. You can see a little bit of Clearinghouse and in order to link these through things together there are a few rolls in the portal that you have to have access to and you can do yourself we can help you the stuff available online is pretty easy to do.

00:36:29.000 –> 00:36:38.000
Then you have CDLIS, right? The CDLIS is the CDL information system. And it’s simply a national database to ensure that each person only has one CDL.

00:36:38.000 –> 00:36:43.000
So that if you move from state and we see this questions a lot, what if this person changes the states? What if they get a new license?

00:36:43.000 –> 00:36:48.000
What if, you know, whatever happens? If it’s a working well, and by large it does, the CDLIS does a good job of making sure that it follows that person, right?

00:36:48.000 –> 00:37:00.000
That one license get closed down when another gets open. There are exceptions. There certainly problems. We deal with them regularly, but that’s the idea.

00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:09.000
So those are the 3 main software that a lot of people don’t know. When you do a query check when you are or even a return to duty check in here.

00:37:09.000 –> 00:37:22.000
When you verify that driver, when you put in their name, their CDL number, their data birth, it’s gets going to CDLIS and it’s saying, hey, do I have somebody with this data birth and this driver’s license that’s in the system and when they verify it’s verifying it CDLIS.

00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:27.000
Then when it goes to the query or to the violation screen, that’s when it’s actually in the Clearinghouse.

00:37:27.000 –> 00:37:31.000
So you actually go through all 3 of these when you are not so much the portal but you go through login.gov

00:37:31.000 –> 00:37:37.000
CDLIS and the Clearinghouse when you are doing any work in the clearance with queries or violations.

00:37:37.000 –> 00:37:44.000
All right, lastly, what is Clearinghouse II? That’s coming, right? We’ve had Clearinghouse another calling, Clearinghouse II.

00:37:44.000 –> 00:37:59.000
It’s scheduled for later this year. May be put off, may not. It requires state drivers license agencies, DMVs, whatever you want to call it, to downgrade a CDL by removing the the CDL privilege when the driver is marked as prohibited in the Clearinghouse.

00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.000
This is good. Any time you have technology and synchronizing you know that sometimes it’s going to go bad.

00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:11.000
So if you have a driver that’s accidentally prohibited. Unwinding that might be pretty complicated going forward.

00:38:11.000 –> 00:38:25.000
It’ll take a little while to figure out. But it is good because when it works, if somebody is prohibited, it should almost be instant, you know, within 24 hours where the person no longer has the the legal ability to operate a CMV.

00:38:25.000 –> 00:38:31.000
But it may make the the reinstitution of the CDL more complicated as I said.

00:38:31.000 –> 00:38:37.000
All right, lastly, just can’t leave you with us. You know, WorkforceQA, we are the most involved in MRO / TPA in the industry.

00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:44.000
Nobody else goes to more industry. Seminar shows we try to do more talking. We have some incredible experts on board. Our key expert is

00:38:44.000 –> 00:38:55.000
Dr. Donna Smith. She actually wrote part 40 when she was with Odapsey before then. So if you need anything after this, you have my information, you’ve got Stephen Mark, both excellent resources.

00:38:55.000 –> 00:39:02.000
Happy to reach you happy to help you in a way that we can. Alright guys, that’s the end of the little talk.

00:39:02.000 –> 00:39:04.000
Do we have any good questions from the audience?

00:39:04.000 –> 00:39:07.000
Oh, well, yeah, we have lit up the questions, yes.

00:39:07.000 –> 00:39:11.000
Alright.

00:39:11.000 –> 00:39:12.000
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

00:39:12.000 –> 00:39:15.000
Yeah, we have quite a few. Mark, you want me to go ahead? I’m gonna take some out in the chat here first and we also have some over here in the Q&A.

00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:23.000
We have a question here when the driver completes all the follow-up. Do we have to send the driver to do a RTD and that RTD must be reported.

00:39:23.000 –> 00:39:33.000
So what would be the process after they’ve completed all the follow up?

00:39:33.000 –> 00:39:38.000
So the RTD comes first, you know, they go through the SAP, then they do the return to duty test, then you send them for the follow-ups and follow-up testing is at the convenience of the employer.

00:39:38.000 –> 00:39:50.000
It’s not really randomized. You get to send them whatever you want but when they have completed the number of follow-up tests You log into the Clearinghouse and you say John is done with his follow-up testing and that’s the end of it.

00:39:50.000 –> 00:40:04.000
And John does not have to take any more follow-up tests. He’s still in the random pool, still subject to reasonable suspicion if that’s ever a problem and post accident but he doesn’t have to do anymore return to duty work.

00:40:04.000 –> 00:40:15.000
Right. Matt has asked a question. What happens if there is a positive test result during the drivers follow up plan.

00:40:15.000 –> 00:40:16.000
Yeah.

00:40:16.000 –> 00:40:27.000
Oh, that never happens guys. Yeah, it’s treated just like any other positive you report it you handle exactly the same way don’t get distracted by the noise if they have a  positive test for any reason

00:40:27.000 –> 00:40:32.000
while they’re in the follow up plan you report it to the Clearinghouse.

00:40:32.000 –> 00:40:41.000
If it’s a positive drug, the MRO reports at the Clearinghouse like we show. Once it’s in the Clearinghouse, you remove them from safety-sensitive duties, you give them a list of SAPs and remove them from duty.

00:40:41.000 –> 00:40:46.000
And if you want to hire them back when they’re done, you can.

00:40:46.000 –> 00:40:47.000
Okay.

00:40:47.000 –> 00:40:54.000
Very good, great answer. Another question, what happens if they don’t, this is basically the same question where they don’t pass any of the follow up tests.

00:40:54.000 –> 00:40:56.000
Or return to duty. So it’s. Yeah. Yeah.

00:40:56.000 –> 00:41:02.000
If they, if they fail one, stop. You know, no do well, right? They fail a test, they’re out.

00:41:02.000 –> 00:41:06.000
Now they can come back after another round of SAP and we see that. We see somebody’s gone through 2 or 3 rounds of SAP.

00:41:06.000 –> 00:41:07.000
Yeah.

00:41:07.000 –> 00:41:10.000
Once it gets to that point I would think very seriously about hiring them but you know to each

00:41:10.000 –> 00:41:14.000
Yeah, they have a unmanageable problem there, so.

00:41:14.000 –> 00:41:18.000
Right, and there’s people, it’s unfortunate. It is on for drug use is a problem.

00:41:18.000 –> 00:41:19.000
It really is.

00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:23.000
Yeah, yes. Yeah. Here’s a question. What if a driver had a positive test

00:41:23.000 –> 00:41:27.000
but previous employer didn’t report declaring house. Is there a return to duty that needs to be completed?

00:41:27.000 –> 00:41:35.000
I’m trying to. Understand the questions here. So.

00:41:35.000 –> 00:41:39.000
Yeah, that’s a new one’s question. There’s a lot of different answers to that.

00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:40.000
Yeah.

00:41:40.000 –> 00:41:46.000
If you somehow find that someone had a positive test to that. If you somehow find that someone had a positive test and that some MRO didn’t report that someone had a positive test and that some MRO didn’t report it into the Clearinghouse.

00:41:46.000 –> 00:41:49.000
How you handle that. If somebody has that specific question, wants to ask me offline we can. I don’t think we can get into that too much. We can. I don’t think we can get into that too much.

00:41:49.000 –> 00:42:04.000
The, you know, one answer, if you somehow find out. That becomes actual knowledge. So if you know that there was a positive test that’s not in the Clearinghouse, remember we showed you the actual regulation.

00:42:04.000 –> 00:42:05.000
Right.

00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:08.000
So if you have information from a previous employer, you could post that violation in the Clearinghouse and then that driver would be that way.

00:42:08.000 –> 00:42:14.000
That would be the best way under most situations.

00:42:14.000 –> 00:42:15.000
Okay

00:42:15.000 –> 00:42:18.000
Very good. Here’s a question from Leo. This one was already answered about passing on the charges to the driver.

00:42:18.000 –> 00:42:33.000
So here’s the next one. How would you address a situation where there’s nothing in the Clearinghouse, but someone reports a positive on paper when you send the previous employer safety verification.

00:42:33.000 –> 00:42:46.000
I think that’s the same thing. You know, if they have a positive test now I would definitely reach out to the Clearinghouse and find a way to make sure that whoever failed to put that in the Clearinghouse was re-educated.

00:42:46.000 –> 00:42:47.000
Yeah.

00:42:47.000 –> 00:43:02.000
That’s not your job necessarily, but you know go to the Clearinghouse make sure I would make some noise about that but you know one way to handle that would be to treat it as actual knowledge if you have that information and you’re sure right you don’t just want to take it on a piece of paper you want to call ask them ask them what the heck they’re thinking letting this driver drive with the violation on the record that kind of

00:43:02.000 –> 00:43:03.000
thing.

00:43:03.000 –> 00:43:04.000
Right. I’m gonna switch over.

00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:15.000
On the actual on on the actual knowledge, Gabe had a great question can can video cameras be used instead of a observation.

00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:17.000
That is a good question, Gabe. All right, let’s talk about 2 different things.

00:43:17.000 –> 00:43:26.000
So reasonable suspicion testing is not what we’re talking about today, but we’ve had a lot of discussion with cameras on reasonable suspicion of somebody acting impaired.

00:43:26.000 –> 00:43:45.000
So let’s get a draw clear to a clear distinction. If you see someone smoking a marijuana cigarette and you know you know that it’s one thing you can’t smell it online right so was it a real cigarette wasn’t you got to be absolutely sure that you have someone drinking alcohol or whatever then I see no reason not to you could upload that as documentation of Clearninghouse.

00:43:45.000 –> 00:43:57.000
Here’s one thing. The Clearinghouse, one reason I love it. Is because there is no penalty if you purport someone to the Clearinghouse and then a safety auditor decides that was not a violation.

00:43:57.000 –> 00:44:04.000
So before now, if you were quit for the Clearinghouse, if you was an employer, were questionable about something, you had to make a call.

00:44:04.000 –> 00:44:11.000
Well now, go conservative. I mean, you don’t want to ruin somebody’s life, of course, but you know, reporting the Clearinghouse if you think it should be.

00:44:11.000 –> 00:44:24.000
If the driver questions it and wants to, you know, have it they have the right to question the Clearinghouse and have the safety auditor a safety inspector to check that out they can tell you that you were wrong and then you know.

00:44:24.000 –> 00:44:35.000
Very good. Now here’s a question from Jonathan. Says if a driver in an SAP is pulled for a regular random test.

00:44:35.000 –> 00:44:42.000
Not part of the return to duty follow up. Does that regular random test need to be directly observed? You may have answered that.

00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:45.000
No. No, I didn’t. That’s a good question. No, it does not.

00:44:45.000 –> 00:44:52.000
Only return to digest and follow tests have to be observed. I’ll say this, you know, all testing random pre-employment.

00:44:52.000 –> 00:44:53.000
If the driver goes in and they produce a sample that’s questionable to the collector if it’s out of temperature.

00:44:53.000 –> 00:44:58.000
If it’s purple, it smells like bleach. It is the collectors responsibility to immediately proceed to a direct observe.

00:44:58.000 –> 00:45:12.000
So in that situation of course it would, but right off the bat a random test does not need to be observed and for what it’s worth any reasonable suspicion test?

00:45:12.000 –> 00:45:18.000
That is not observed either unless they give. So when you send someone for reasonable suspicion, it’s not observed right off the bat.

00:45:18.000 –> 00:45:22.000
Only return to duty and follow-up tests are always observed.

00:45:22.000 –> 00:45:31.000
Very good. Here’s another question from Honey, says if we are using a third party to pull Clearinghouse,

00:45:31.000 –> 00:45:38.000
Should we also go into Clearinghouse to verify they do not have any open SAP?

00:45:38.000 –> 00:45:44.000
I would hope your third party did that for you. But somebody should. You have clicked the details.

00:45:44.000 –> 00:46:01.000
Always click the details. We, I’ve talked to too many companies that have hired somebody that called me and they always say in a very hushed tone even though they’re on the phone and say what do I do I’ve been working this person for a year and we just found out they have a violation we haven’t done the first program we’ve done the first test we can’t even get a hold of their

00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:04.000
SAP. We don’t know where they are. We don’t know what to do. We can’t fire them.

00:46:04.000 –> 00:46:09.000
We’ve been working on for a year and you know that’s that’s messy. Don’t get in that spot.

00:46:09.000 –> 00:46:13.000
Very good. Let’s see here. From James. Okay.

00:46:13.000 –> 00:46:16.000
I said, James, James has got a great question.

00:46:16.000 –> 00:46:17.000
Oh, well, sorry, we’re out of time. Got to go.

00:46:17.000 –> 00:46:18.000
Go ahead, Mark. Okay.

00:46:18.000 –> 00:46:26.000
Admission, of drug use by CDL employer, need to be reported to the Clearinghouse.

00:46:26.000 –> 00:46:35.000
A good nuanced question, James. All right, so I think we had this in the, I could pull back up the actual odd slide, but anybody wants to go to part 382 and look at the definition for actual knowledge.

00:46:35.000 –> 00:46:42.000
Here it is. If someone admits to you that they have a drug problem, before they are selected for a test.

00:46:42.000 –> 00:47:05.000
OK, they just walk in. They have not been selected for random test or anything. Under certain circumstances if you have a program and it meets the other guidelines that person does not go in the Clearinghouse that person goes into treatment right type of a rehab that it’s after the exact but it’s admission situation.

00:47:06.000 –> 00:47:10.000
However, if that person has been picked for a random test or reasonable suspicion test and they decide that that’s the moment they need to tell you that they use drugs too little too bad you send them for the test if they refuse its refusal.

00:47:10.000 –> 00:47:19.000
If but you know if you don’t have one of those programs and if somebody if you if you corner them and then they admit those all fall under actual knowledge.

00:47:19.000 –> 00:47:33.000
Very good. Another question here from Gabe wants to follow up testing plan is completed does all evidence of the original violation appear anywhere on DACH.

00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:42.000
DACH is an acronym. Not a lot of people use a game, but you’re on this drug alcohol Clearinghouse, DACH.

00:47:43.000 –> 00:47:57.000
So that’s something we use sometimes. On the portal you’ll see that as well. The employer should maintain that documentation I would say for 5 years minimum myself to keep that I might keep it for the you know in A file for the longevity of the driver just to keep that.

00:47:57.000 –> 00:48:10.000
But again, none of that goes on the Clearinghouse website because it’s public record and so they don’t you don’t upload the SAP plan or any return to duty test results or any of that stuff on the actual Clearinghouse website.

00:48:10.000 –> 00:48:19.000
Very good. Stan here is asking would love to have the 6 steps of the return to duty process saved on my computer.

00:48:19.000 –> 00:48:20.000
Will it be available?

00:48:20.000 –> 00:48:27.000
We’ll stand. I’m sure we can share these slides that that’s not already part of the plan.

00:48:27.000 –> 00:48:28.000
Yeah.

00:48:28.000 –> 00:48:32.000
I know this this is being recorded and you I’ll tell everybody secret that slide came directly from the Clearinghouse.

00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:35.000
So there’s a there’s a good Q&A section on the Clearinghouse. So there’s a good Q&A section on the Clearinghouse so you can pull that up and see where that is.

00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:54.000
That’s great. That’s fantastic. Yeah, just so everybody knows, everybody will get a, an email back from us, once this thing has been processed and recorded and be provided with the link so you can view it again, share it with people that couldn’t be on today.

00:48:54.000 –> 00:49:06.000
I can forward a copy of the slides that anybody wants and we could actually include a link to that in the email we send back so they can have all the great information if that’s okay with you, Grady.

00:49:06.000 –> 00:49:07.000
Absolutely. Yeah, love to have it. Hope everybody finds it useful.

00:49:07.000 –> 00:49:14.000
Oh, perfect. Very good. Here’s another one for Christina.

00:49:14.000 –> 00:49:23.000
Why though, wait a minute, why the local driver for a box struck? Can’t be registered declaring house if they are positive.

00:49:23.000 –> 00:49:26.000
Says with the regular drivers license. I’m not sure I understand that. Question, Christina.

00:49:26.000 –> 00:49:38.000
Sure. So drugs, the federal drug and alcohol regulations apply for a driver that’s operating a vehicle that either weighs or is rated away 26,000 pounds or more.

00:49:38.000 –> 00:49:47.000
And the other ones are if it’s designed for a vehicle that’s designed for 16 or more passengers or if they’re carrying any hazmat.

00:49:47.000 –> 00:49:59.000
Those are the 3 things that are subject to drug and alcohol. Typically box trucks are not subject to drug and alcohol violations, so you can still test them under non DOT, but they’re not supposed to be tested for DOT, drug and alcohol.

00:49:59.000 –> 00:50:18.000
Box trucks typically do fall under DOT medical card guidelines and so under part 390, 391, they are considered a commercial motor vehicle because they do have to have a DOT physical but not drug and alcohol unless they hit that 26,000 pound, 16 passengers or HAZMAT.

00:50:18.000 –> 00:50:27.000
Right. Another question. Do you feel that the return to duty process is causing so many drivers?

00:50:27.000 –> 00:50:32.000
Not to return to trucking after a drug test or alcohol violation. Do you think the Clearinghouse?

00:50:32.000 –> 00:50:37.000
Will come up with a different process for return to duty.

00:50:37.000 –> 00:50:50.000
The Clearinghouse did not change any of that. The the only thing the Clearinghouse changed was that you had to notify the Clearinghouse and if you took all of the actions required together it may be 5 min worth of work for the Clearinghouse itself.

00:50:50.000 –> 00:51:00.000
What we see is the Clearinghouse has shown a spotlight onto a broken process. We had drivers before that were sneaking through the process and they were trying to get hired.

00:51:00.000 –> 00:51:14.000
We, you know, we and a lot of those just weren’t coming back. We have a large, and let’s be clear everybody, up if you look at the data on drug and alcohol testing for the entire country, the entire general workforce, it’s a lot higher than DOT.

00:51:14.000 –> 00:51:15.000
Hmm.

00:51:15.000 –> 00:51:29.000
DOT drug use is very well regulated. It’s been very successful. We have a let around a one to 2% positivity rate every year.

00:51:29.000 –> 00:51:30.000
Indeed.

00:51:30.000 –> 00:51:34.000
Now, 2 ways to look, that 1-2% is tremendously lower than general workforce, but that’s a heck of a lot of trucks that are out on the road that are still positive for drug alcohol violations and you don’t want to be next to any of them or anybody that you love.

00:51:34.000 –> 00:51:38.000
So it’s it’s been very successful. I don’t think they’re going to change that program.

00:51:38.000 –> 00:51:42.000
No, I don’t. A lot of it may be the next question on. This is a hot one.

00:51:42.000 –> 00:51:45.000
You know, what do we do about Marijuana. We don’t want to get into that today.

00:51:45.000 –> 00:51:46.000
Maybe that’s another webinar.

00:51:46.000 –> 00:51:48.000
Yeah. That’s

00:51:48.000 –> 00:51:49.000
Yeah.

00:51:49.000 –> 00:51:52.000
It probably is. I here’s a here’s a really good question. What’s the process

00:51:52.000 –> 00:52:03.000
If you are working on follow up testing. And terminate the driver for non drug related reasons. Before they’re done with the follow-up testing.

00:52:03.000 –> 00:52:09.000
Is the employer still required to continue with follow up testing? No.

00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:17.000
No, only if you’re having continue safety sensitive operations so if they quit or if you terminate employment no you do not continue follow-up testing.

00:52:17.000 –> 00:52:22.000
It’s actually would be have to struggle if I’m the violation but you don’t do that.

00:52:22.000 –> 00:52:28.000
What you do want to do is if the driver goes down the road and applies for somebody else, they’re probably going to ask you for those records.

00:52:28.000 –> 00:52:43.000
So if you’re working SAP drivers, you want to have a good process where you have a release for those records that the driver would give you because you can’t just send those records out to anybody and keep those in a place where you could easily give them to the next employer rather than having to pull them all out.

00:52:43.000 –> 00:52:56.000
Right. Near another really good question. What happens if you find out later? That you’ve been employing a driver for over a year that has not done a follow up test.

00:52:56.000 –> 00:52:57.000
Seems like they already said that.

00:52:57.000 –> 00:53:04.000
If we start the testing now and moving forward, are we in compliance?

00:53:04.000 –> 00:53:05.000
Okay.

00:53:05.000 –> 00:53:09.000
Yeah, that’s a good question. And it happens right? Click that details button. See if somebody’s in the program, click that details button, see if somebody’s in the program, make sure that you’re managing it.

00:53:09.000 –> 00:53:22.000
You know, if you’re it’s one of those things if you manage it you can work SAP drivers if you’re not don’t don’t dip your toe in that pool right not even for somebody that you think is a is a good person for whatever reason if you don’t have a good way members that don’t do that.

00:53:22.000 –> 00:53:29.000
A lot of DOT if you’re ever you know on the stand or being at audited is is when did you know and what did you do about it?

00:53:29.000 –> 00:53:45.000
And I think if you follow that is as soon as you find out that somebody’s employed you don’t have grounds to terminate them, start that follow-up program right away, get that done if you can’t get the follow-up program from the SAP, then take them out of safety-sensitive duties until they can get you that follow-up plan.

00:53:45.000 –> 00:53:49.000
You can’t proceed with the follow-up testing until you have that plan.

00:53:49.000 –> 00:53:58.000
Here’s a question from James. Can a reasonable suspicion interview be done over video chat.

00:53:58.000 –> 00:54:08.000
In the event you get a report from a shipper that driver is suspect.

00:54:08.000 –> 00:54:09.000
Right.

00:54:09.000 –> 00:54:11.000
Oh, that’s a good question. That’s not what we’re here today to talk about with the return to test but that’s okay so the I’ve asked that same question myself.

00:54:11.000 –> 00:54:25.000
The I’m going to struggle to get the exact wording from the reasonable suspicion, but reasonable suspicion testing has to be Oh, I’m gonna pull this, but it’s timely, right?

00:54:25.000 –> 00:54:26.000
You have to have, you can’t say somebody used the drug yesterday and contemporaneous is the word, and contemporaneous of the word contemporaneous, which means now you have to have that information.

00:54:26.000 –> 00:54:40.000
And contemporaneous is the word contemporaneous, which means now you have to have that information. It has to be So if a shipper tells you this person is higher or whatever, if you get on and you have a phone call, I don’t think that that’s going to give you enough information.

00:54:40.000 –> 00:54:47.000
You can’t tell enough over the phone. But if you have a video call, you If you can see the behaviors, you know, you can’t, there’s no smell of vision.

00:54:47.000 –> 00:55:03.000
So you can’t smell drug or alcohol use on the person over a video call. But if they are clearly slurring if they’re clearly acting disheveled in such a way where you feel that you can justify a reasonable suspicion best you could.

00:55:03.000 –> 00:55:08.000
Here’s the rub. You can’t tell them to drive down the road to a clinic to get a test once you think that they’re high on drugs.

00:55:08.000 –> 00:55:10.000
Yeah.

00:55:10.000 –> 00:55:16.000
You know, so you have to have a wife for somebody to escort them, take an Uber somewhere another, tell them to stop driving your truck.

00:55:16.000 –> 00:55:28.000
So while, you know, I quote Chris Rock all the time, the comedian, he says, you can do it, but that doesn’t make it a good idea.

00:55:28.000 –> 00:55:37.000
Here is an interesting question from Sarah. We accidently ran a non regulated pre-employment on a driver. He tested positive. We were undergoing an audit at the time.

00:55:37.000 –> 00:55:46.000
The auditor found the mistake. She said to retest him about a week later. He passed and she said he could drive.

00:55:46.000 –> 00:55:59.000
But I had already posted the unregulated test to the Clearinghouse. So, Auditor said he could drive, but Clearinghouse shows him out of compliance.

00:55:59.000 –> 00:56:00.000
That was a mouthful, huh?

00:56:00.000 –> 00:56:12.000
Yeah, technically I think that’s correct, but I don’t like it. You don’t have to, I guess, in their situation what they’re saying is they had hired this person based on a non-regulated test but she said no because she said it was positive, right?

00:56:12.000 –> 00:56:13.000
Yeah, it was positive.

00:56:13.000 –> 00:56:28.000
So they There’s some holes in that or I’m confused if you if you do a test on someone it’s positive even if it’s an unregulated test, I would not expect you to proceed with that.

00:56:28.000 –> 00:56:29.000
Yeah.

00:56:29.000 –> 00:56:37.000
I guess the question could be if the person came back and wanted to retest you could let them retest I don’t think I would do that I think I would tell them that they didn’t meet my company guidelines since you were aware of a drug and alcohol problem.

00:56:37.000 –> 00:56:38.000
But it

00:56:38.000 –> 00:56:44.000
It sounds like they did the test wrong. They accidentally ran a non-regulated. Pre-employment on a driver.

00:56:44.000 –> 00:56:49.000
Right. But if it was positive, you probably wouldn’t have hired the driver. She said pre-employment, right?

00:56:49.000 –> 00:56:50.000
Was that part of the question?

00:56:50.000 –> 00:56:53.000
I guess it was. Yeah, yeah. Regulated pre employment on a driver. Yeah.

00:56:53.000 –> 00:57:08.000
Wouldn’t have expected that driver to be hired. If you’re being audited, I mean you you could let the driver, if somebody fails a regular, you know, non DOT drug test, you technically could let them come back and test the next day.

00:57:08.000 –> 00:57:09.000
Yeah.

00:57:09.000 –> 00:57:12.000
On DOT and they could technically pass and drive all day long. But I’ll quote my buddy Chris Rock again.

00:57:12.000 –> 00:57:18.000
You can do it, but don’t do it.

00:57:18.000 –> 00:57:19.000
Okay

00:57:19.000 –> 00:57:23.000
Yeah, I got it. Okay, that question was answered. That question was answered. Let’s see if there’s any others.

00:57:23.000 –> 00:57:38.000
As I don’t see any other new ones. Anybody else have a question or when we haven’t got to.

00:57:38.000 –> 00:57:39.000
That

00:57:39.000 –> 00:57:41.000
Oh, somebody asking is there a webinar and reasonable suspicion to watch? Well maybe that’s that’s one we’ll have to put together right we haven’t done one, at least not recently, Amy.

00:57:41.000 –> 00:57:50.000
So we’ll. We’ll have to look into that. Maybe that’s a another hour that’s well worth, talking about.

00:57:50.000 –> 00:57:59.000
So I think, all I wanted to say, I think we’ve come to the end of questions just so everybody that’s on knows.

00:57:59.000 –> 00:58:06.000
You’ll get a message back from us an email that you know that you can watch the replay here.

00:58:06.000 –> 00:58:14.000
I’m going to see if we can include the slides, with that email so everybody gets a copy of them and have all the nice information.

00:58:14.000 –> 00:58:23.000
And information about Grady, of course. And I also wanted to. You know, to mention that.

00:58:23.000 –> 00:58:35.000
You know, there. There’s training also involved here and you all know that that’s kind of what we do here is to make sure we’re providing quality training.

00:58:35.000 –> 00:58:49.000
And, I just want to pop this little poll up on the screen here. That, if you, you know, agree that drug and alcohol training is important and real part of this is keeping people from getting into that circumstance to begin with.

00:58:49.000 –> 00:59:06.000
So if we’re training our drivers about it. You know, and you’d like to know more about what we might be able to do to help you get that training done and you know answer yes you’re on my little poll but I put up on the screen so Grady.

00:59:06.000 –> 00:59:22.000
This has been one of the most informative webinars I think we’ve had in quite a while.

00:59:23.000 –> 00:59:24.000
It looks like the audience agrees. A lot of thank yous a lot of very informative. Really really good program thank you very much sir I appreciate it.

00:59:24.000 –> 00:59:29.000
I’d like to ask everybody on chat just to give a thank you to Grady for helping our industry cope with this impairment problem that’s out there.

00:59:31.000 –> 00:59:32.000
Just give a thank you to Grady for helping our industry cope with this, impairment problem that’s out there.

00:59:32.000 –> 00:59:38.000
Just cope with this, impairment problem that’s out there. Just we really do appreciate the work you’ve done and the collaboration with the FMCSA.

00:59:38.000 –> 00:59:43.000
Somebody did ask about who pays for it. I think the answer is the driver normally pays, but a carrier can pay for it.

00:59:43.000 –> 00:59:45.000
Is that, is that correct?

00:59:45.000 –> 00:59:49.000
Yep, both the SAP, exactly right, Mark.

00:59:49.000 –> 00:59:52.000
So on chat this gift this is great a big thank you

00:59:52.000 –> 00:59:53.000
Thanks everybody.

00:59:53.000 –> 00:59:54.000
Well, we’re getting hundreds of them here, so it looks like. So that’s fantastic.

00:59:54.000 –> 01:00:04.000
Grady, thank you much, sir. Thanks to everybody that joined us today. I think everybody got a lot of really good information.

01:00:04.000 –> 01:00:13.000
And, we’ll make sure, like, Grady said, if you have any other questions, you can send them to him, you can send them to me.

01:00:13.000 –> 01:00:19.000
We’ll get the answers for you. So, once again, thanks for everybody joining us today.

01:00:19.000 –> 01:00:25.000
And we help you come back and join us on our next webinar. Grady, thank you, sir.

01:00:25.000 –> 01:00:26.000
Thank you all.

01:00:26.000 –> 01:00:33.000
Appreciate it. Thanks to everybody.