Webinar Replay #50: Impacts of Marijuana Legalization on the Trucking Industry

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Steve Kessler: Good morning, everybody.

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Steve Kessler: Welcome to the Infinit-I Workforce Solutions Fast Forward Webinar Series, sponsored by Vertical Alliance Group. My name’s Steve Kessler, and I’m going to be the host of the program today.

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Steve Kessler: We do appreciate you all joining us. And

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Steve Kessler: if you don’t mind jump onto that chat box there at the bottom, and you know, let us know who you are and where you’re from, and

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Steve Kessler: maybe what company you’re with.

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Steve Kessler: See a lot of our customers popping in here, too. So, while y’all are doing that, let me introduce a couple of folks here.

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Steve Kessler: First, I want to introduce Mark Rhea those of you that have been on our webinars in the past. Mark’s a regular on our program. He’s a 35 year. Transportation, executive veteran that has a lot of experience in pretty much every aspect of trucking.

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Steve Kessler: So welcome, Mark, do you have any comments about our topic today. No, it’s you know, there’s a lot of confusion, a lot of information exchange that needs to take place. And on this issue. I think the one

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Mark Rhea: fact that none of us would argue is that impaired driving is and continues to contribute to

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Mark Rhea: problems on our highways for our commercial drivers. So, I’m really looking forward to Jeff’s presentation. We’re not going to answer all the questions today. We might even raise more questions to at the end. Then we have at the beginning. But to solve a problem, you’ve got to at least agree on what the pieces of the puzzle are. So, we’re really looking forward to our

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Mark Rhea: friend from the ATRI. That’s done exhaustive research on this topic, and

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Mark Rhea: let’s go

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Steve Kessler: alright. Everybody. Let me introduce our very special guest today. With us this morning is Jeff short just the Vice President of the American Transportation Research Institute based in Atlanta

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Steve Kessler: His expert areas of expertise include transportation policy and regulations. data management and analysis and freight related safety technology and performance measurement.

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Steve Kessler: Jeff’s been with the ATRI for 19 years

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Steve Kessler: and has worked directly with anonymous telematics data expanding the scale and scope of the organization, struck GPS data, research and analysis.

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Steve Kessler: And through this work he’s built systems for measuring travel, time, speed, and reliability indices for freight movement across North America.

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Steve Kessler: Jeff has published several trucking industry focus reports

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Steve Kessler: on transportation finance and the cost benefits of key funding mechanisms. Additionally, he’s led numerous research initiatives assessing the impact of Federal regulations

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Steve Kessler: particularly those focused on the drivers. Hours of service rules and his other research interests include safety culture within organizations and emerging freight technologies.

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Steve Kessler: Jeff holds a bachelor’s degree from Emory University and a master’s from Georgia Institute of Technology.

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Steve Kessler: Good morning, Jeff. Welcome. Good morning. How’s it going? Going very well. Thank you for joining us this morning.

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Jeffrey Short: Not a problem, not a problem at all. I’m

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Jeffrey Short: I’m glad to speak with everyone on this topic. Certainly, is a difficult, tricky topic.

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Jeffrey Short: The States at the end of the day are putting out their version of what the law is regarding marijuana, and the Federal Government has its version.

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Jeffrey Short: and the 2 aren’t lining up. So, we’ll go through some of the research that we’ve done in this area.

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Jeffrey Short: specifically, I’ll be talking about all aspects of marijuana legalization on the trucking industry. The impact of recreational marijuana, because we know most States out there, if not, all States have legalized some form of

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Jeffrey Short: medicinal access to marijuana. In some places it’s more extensive than others. But what is a real concern to the trucking industry at this point

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Jeffrey Short: is recreational marijuana. So, if we can go to the next slide.

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Jeffrey Short: just some background on my organization. We are the trucking industry’s not for profit, research organization, American transportation Research Institute. And we do research in all areas of the trucking industry.

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Jeffrey Short: This topic, of course, falls into safety.

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Jeffrey Short: And we do, we do research on just about everything involving trucks, from economic analysis to what is the impact on the environment of, let’s say, switching to a battery electric vehicle. We’ve got a lot of a lot of work on in that area as well.

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Jeffrey Short: All of our studies are free to the public. They’re at our website. TruckingResearch.org you can browse through there. Pick a study if it’s of interest, including this study and just click, fill in something that they ask for a couple your email address, I believe. And then you can download

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Jeffrey Short: the report.

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Jeffrey Short: And it’s very helpful to see who is who is downloading the reports and that sort of thing. That’s why we collect that information.

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Jeffrey Short: We are a not for profit. Our funding comes about 50 of our funding comes directly from donations, charitable donations to our organization, from the trucking industry.

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Jeffrey Short: And the other part of our research is governments such as State government, Federal government. They hired us as a consultant, as an expert in the trucking industry.

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Jeffrey Short: So, they we can guide them through difficult research topics that. They don’t necessarily have the expertise

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Jeffrey Short: to navigate through, so we can go to the next slide. Just quickly as a not for profit. We are governed by a board of directors at the Board of directors every year

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Jeffrey Short: reviews our research agenda and approves it. But more importantly, on the next slide, you’ll see how we how we come to research a topic. And that is through our research advisory committee in this group.

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Jeffrey Short: It’s a diverse group from throughout the industry.

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Jeffrey Short: This group gets together once a year, and they say, what are the most important topics that need to be researched? What has actually researched in the past, what needs to be done in the future, and they pick

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Jeffrey Short: 5 of the most important topics and push them.

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Jeffrey Short: push them through, vote for them, and we move forward on that research. So, with that we can go on to the next slide and bring into marijuana topic.

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Jeffrey Short: So, in 2022, this was a top research priority for our research advisory committee.

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Jeffrey Short: It is not our first

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Jeffrey Short: time looking at marijuana and the impact of marijuana on the trucking industry. In fact, in 2,018. We did research

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Jeffrey Short: on marijuana that mostly focused on testing.

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Jeffrey Short: How do we test? But it took a. It took a good look at where it was legal and where it wasn’t. And it’s kind of surprising

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Jeffrey Short: that research came out in 2019. It’s kind of surprising how much

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Jeffrey Short: legalized marijuana has grown, so to speak. So, I’ll show you that in a in a coming slide. But the focus of this research

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Jeffrey Short: is workforce implications from increased legalization. We went and looked at the number of positive tests going on out there.

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Jeffrey Short: How many folks are winding up in the clearing house. And for what reasons is it marijuana? Is it other drugs?

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Jeffrey Short: And we also did a survey with trucking industry with motor carriers. We had about 200 folks respond to that motor carrier survey, mostly from safety departments. Hr. And then we had a huge response on our driver survey? We put

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Jeffrey Short: these similar questions asked drivers in 3,300

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Jeffrey Short: offered responses. And it

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Jeffrey Short: really, really great information, really, great

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Jeffrey Short: input on this topic from the drivers, and we’ll go through some of that as well, so we can go to the next slide.

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Jeffrey Short: So, the first thing we looked at in this research was legalization trends.

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Jeffrey Short: So here are in the deep green our 2019 study.

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Jeffrey Short: Those are the States that were legal. It was 10 States where recreational marijuana was legal.

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Jeffrey Short: Fast. Forward fast forward to

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Jeffrey Short: to the present day to 2023. And we’ve gotten that number up to 23 States

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Jeffrey Short: as of June 2023, 23 States have legalized

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Jeffrey Short: recreational marijuana, and this certainly

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Jeffrey Short: presents issues to the trucking industry. Since drivers are driving through these days. Drivers are based in these States, and we’ll go through how many folks are based in these States.

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Jeffrey Short: and some folks don’t know whether or not they can use marijuana. They may think, oh, I can use marijuana, because cause it’s legal in my state, and that, of course, is not the case

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Jeffrey Short: for those governed under FMCSA

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Jeffrey Short: I should note also that with this

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Jeffrey Short: spread of legal marijuana Americans have become more and more supportive

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Jeffrey Short: of marijuana legalization. And there’s one survey out there that was done with 59 Americans support both medical and recreational marijuana legalization.

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Jeffrey Short: Only 10% are against legalization in the in the rest fall somewhere in the middle. So, it’s a majority. There aren’t many folks out there who are absolutely against

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Jeffrey Short: legalization of any kind, it’s only 10. So, this is the trend. This is where things are heading, and that map is likely to get more and more green. I can’t tell you which States will be next.

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Jeffrey Short: but certainly, there are other states that will be joining the list. So, if we go to the next slide we’ll get some demographic information. So, at the time of our 2019 study.

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Jeffrey Short: only 24% of the Us. Population lived in a state

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Jeffrey Short: where marijuana was legal, and that is now up to half of the US population. So, half the US population

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Jeffrey Short: can access for recreational purposes. Marijuana, what does this do with our drivers? In the past. It was only 18

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Jeffrey Short: drivers, apparently.

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Jeffrey Short: compared to the US population, tend to live in places where marijuana is not legal, but it’s still a large number.

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Jeffrey Short: and then you go to 2023, that dark blue line on the bottom, and you see 41.4 of drivers are currently based in a state where marijuana

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Jeffrey Short: of recreational marijuana is legal, so we can go to the next slide.

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Jeffrey Short: So, the first part of our research into this topic.

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Jeffrey Short: In this most recent report, we looked at marijuana and impacts on highway safety. And a lot of a lot of this

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Jeffrey Short: required us to go out and see what research was being done in academia

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Jeffrey Short: etc., so that we could

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Jeffrey Short: really home in on what this does for highway safety. So, the first

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Jeffrey Short: item here we looked at the impacts on drivers is there research out there supporting

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Jeffrey Short: impacts on drivers of using marijuana. If you’re if you’re driving a car.

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Jeffrey Short: for instance, and you use marijuana

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Jeffrey Short: there, there are going to be impacts in impaired coordination, distorted perception problem solving difficulties. Those are just some of the issues.

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Jeffrey Short: but it’s well established that that marijuana impairs drivers.

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Jeffrey Short: There are folks out there who may say, oh, it well, it slows down drivers, that sort of thing.

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Jeffrey Short: But there is no argument that drivers of anything

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Jeffrey Short: should be using marijuana

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Jeffrey Short: in in it causes a safety problem. Now, as far as the next item here

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Jeffrey Short: impact on safety statistics.

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Jeffrey Short: there is exploit.

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Jeffrey Short: When I say safety statistics. What I’m talking about is the rate of crashes, particularly in states where recreational marijuana has been legal

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Jeffrey Short: at the end of the day. Not enough data exists out there. It hasn’t been legal for long enough for them for researchers to take that one variable and say, yes, this has negatively impacted highway safety.

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Jeffrey Short: But initial data does suggest that marijuana legalization has

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Jeffrey Short: overall negatively impacted highway safety in the case. In particular, it increases non-fatal crashes

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Jeffrey Short: and non-fatal and injury crashes.

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Jeffrey Short: So, more research is certainly needed in that area. But that’s the overall impact. And then finally, we looked at the status of impairment testing standards. and at the end of the day there are a lot of challenges in this area to overcome the biological measurements of marijuana

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Jeffrey Short: and the level of impact marijuana has on a driver.

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Jeffrey Short: Currently, its behavior based.

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Jeffrey Short: but behavior based methods for testing, let’s say, a roadside test touching your nose. That sort of thing. Walk a straight line

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Jeffrey Short: the research out there shows that there’s a lack of sensitivity towards marijuana impairment. And in one research study. They were identifying people who weren’t impaired as impaired through these tests and vice versa, people who were impaired.

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Jeffrey Short: We’re passing the test.

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Jeffrey Short: So, what really needs to happen is there needs to be a standard biology based impairment test.

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Jeffrey Short: And that just has not

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Jeffrey Short: been developed. And part of that is

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Jeffrey Short: what does it even mean to be impaired that hasn’t even been settled? How much THC in the blood, for instance.

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Jeffrey Short: what is that measurement going to be? And what does it mean to be impaired there? There is no

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Jeffrey Short: settle science on this

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Jeffrey Short: yet what we’ve done is not we on this call, but

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Jeffrey Short: as a country, or, as States

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Jeffrey Short: have put the cart before the horse, there’s no way to test for this.

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Jeffrey Short: but access has been increased, and certainly, II think an impairment test would be critical. We’ll get to that a little later, for the trucking industry

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Jeffrey Short: as legalization increases. as more people have access to marijuana, and are not necessarily

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Jeffrey Short: people who would drive well impaired. So, if we can go to the next slide.

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Jeffrey Short: So, we looked at. We looked at some of some of the data out there, for who is ending up in the in the

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Jeffrey Short: clearing house, in the

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Jeffrey Short: drug and alcohol, varying housing, particularly

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Jeffrey Short: the drug side of things. We didn’t really look at alcohol. But what are they ending up there for? And then I’ll show you some of the some of the statistics, for how many folks are going through the process to return to duty. But

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Jeffrey Short: I found this this statistic quite amazing. We have very, very dangerous drugs here. Cocaine, methamphetamine opioids, amphetamine

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Jeffrey Short: that

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Jeffrey Short: you know all of all of this is dangerous to use and drive. But

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Jeffrey Short: as many of the folks who responded to the survey said.

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Jeffrey Short: You know II would never, ever hire someone who has a cocaine positive, or meth positive

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Jeffrey Short: I wouldn’t even consider it, whereas marijuana there’s more acceptance of that among carriers.

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Jeffrey Short: So, we look here, and we see how many folks, how many of the folks

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Jeffrey Short: who are testing positive are positive for marijuana. And it’s most of that’s the majority.

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Jeffrey Short: So, what is what is likely happening here is more folks

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Jeffrey Short: are using marijuana. It is more easily accessible.

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Jeffrey Short: It stays in your body a very long time. It stays in your body, for, let’s say, 30 days, 3 weeks, whereas something like cocaine

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Jeffrey Short: that can be out of your body in in a matter of hours, if you will, if not a day or 2.

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Jeffrey Short: So it’s really very difficult to catch someone

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Jeffrey Short: with cocaine marijuana use.

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Jeffrey Short: II mean methamphetamine use, because it stays in the body for such a short period of time. But the approach to marijuana is we’re going to test for metabolite. And the metabolite test is not. It’s definitely not a test for impairment

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Jeffrey Short: is a test for past years, and that past use is detectable for very, very long time 30 days. In the case of marijuana.

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Jeffrey Short: not for these other drugs. So next slide, please.

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Jeffrey Short: So here are some of some of the numbers.

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Jeffrey Short: What’s going on with the industry as far as

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Jeffrey Short: folks getting a positive test we put in prohibited status and then entering back in workforce.

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Jeffrey Short: And what we see here is.

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Jeffrey Short: since the drug in house alcohol clearing has

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Jeffrey Short: Looking back at numbers from January 2021,

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Jeffrey Short: through a 3-year time period

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Jeffrey Short: what we have is

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Jeffrey Short: actually, it’s before January 2021.

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Jeffrey Short: I apologize there. But

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Jeffrey Short: what we have is the number of folks

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Jeffrey Short: getting violation is going up, and it has gone up to 166. That’s no surprise.

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Jeffrey Short: But 91,000 of these, as of 2023, these folks have not started the return duty process. and the total and prohibited status is 120,000 out of 166,000, that is, that’s an enormous number.

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Jeffrey Short: And when you look back and think, all right, 57 of these folks, it’s a marijuana. a positive test.

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Jeffrey Short: And they’re kind of being pulled out of industry. Certainly, it puts pressure on the number of available drivers.

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Jeffrey Short: especially if these drivers are not using marijuana

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Jeffrey Short: anytime close to being on duty, for instance.

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Jeffrey Short: maybe on the weekend, or maybe before they even decided to enter the trucking industry. You see a lot of prescreening positive tests.

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Jeffrey Short: Folks may not have been aware, because it’s legal in their State. They may not have been aware that they would have to take this drug test.

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Jeffrey Short: though to to all of us it may seem obvious. It just. It might not be on a new entrance radar.

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Jeffrey Short: and then they end up testing positive.

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Jeffrey Short: So, if we go to the next slide we will get into

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Jeffrey Short: first, first, we’ll go into some of the issues

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Jeffrey Short: additional workforce implications. Then we’re going to go with survey data.

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Jeffrey Short: So

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Jeffrey Short: to that earlier point, trucking competes

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Jeffrey Short: with other industries, let’s say short call local driving.

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Jeffrey Short: These do not require a test for drugs. So, books made wind up in the clearing house, and let’s say

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Jeffrey Short: they find a driving job or a job, not having anything to do with driving.

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Jeffrey Short: and that is that is great. They can. They can possibly continue to use marijuana recreationally outside of workforce

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Jeffrey Short: still have a job

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Jeffrey Short: so essentially what it’s happening here is folks are being pushed into other industries or other areas of goods movement.

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Jeffrey Short: So also.

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Jeffrey Short: we can’t overlook the fact that medical marijuana is out there. And there are states that have moved tech employees use under State law.

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Jeffrey Short: What we have in the trucking industry is the status as a schedule. One drug protects employers from, let’s say, being sued under the Americans for Disability Act

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Jeffrey Short: for testing folks, for

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Jeffrey Short: for marijuana use, because that would be some form of discrimination as a medical user.

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Jeffrey Short: There are also states, California in particular.

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Jeffrey Short: has made it illegal to discriminate against workers who use marijuana recreationally.

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Jeffrey Short: So, you can’t say alright. I know you use marijuana recreationally outside of the workforce. Aye. you cannot.

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Jeffrey Short: You cannot terminate employment, because that, and therefore you can’t test for marijuana. There are currently exceptions.

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Jeffrey Short: the exception being folks who are federally regulated. That’s why that’s why it’s important that these regulations

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Jeffrey Short: are in place.

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Jeffrey Short: That’s why it’s scheduled one drug designation, which means marijuana has no medicinal use in the eyes of Federal government. That’s why that’s

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Jeffrey Short: those items are so important, and we’ll go over that on one of the last slides.

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Jeffrey Short: So, moving on. So next slide. So, like I said, we did some survey research. We survey

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Jeffrey Short: motor carriers first, and then 3,300 drivers. So, the first question here that will go through is based on your company’s policies as a prior drug test for marijuana at any time in the past, disqualify a driver automatically from employment at your company.

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Jeffrey Short: and when I started in the industry about almost 20 years ago.

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Jeffrey Short: II believe this number was much, much higher, but right now what we heard is 43 said, they will not hire A driver who has this past marijuana test.

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Jeffrey Short: I would suspect that that might have been 220 years ago.

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Jeffrey Short: And now folks come truck and company executives, Hr. Professionals, etc. are saying, well, we might hire them. This driver shortage by drivers.

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Jeffrey Short: and

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Jeffrey Short: while a cocaine positive or a methamphetamine positive test,

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Jeffrey Short: is one indicator. Maybe marijuana is not at that level. So let’s go to the next slide.

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Jeffrey Short: So, of those folks who said they would rehire

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Jeffrey Short: is, is there amount of time that must pass after that positive marijuana drug test before you’ll hire them.

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Jeffrey Short: And of those who gave an answer, the plurality. Said, 5 years

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Jeffrey Short: sunset all the way up to 5 to 10 years. but many were. Were. We’re in the one year, 6-month area. If you can get through through

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Jeffrey Short: the clearing house returned to due process. Then you’re welcome back.

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Jeffrey Short: So next slide

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Jeffrey Short: we ask carriers if they’ve noticed an increase in positive tests in the past 5,

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Jeffrey Short: the majority not surprisingly said yes, they had those.

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Jeffrey Short: So that just that just speaks and shows further evidence that recreational marijuana is probably

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Jeffrey Short: probably

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Jeffrey Short: pushing these numbers a little higher, pushing the positive test a little higher

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Jeffrey Short: and taking more folks out the industry.

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Jeffrey Short: So next slide?

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Jeffrey Short: We asked. Carriers, are they concerned about a whole host of different things? And I’ll just go through a couple of these

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Jeffrey Short: this one is, are you concerned, drivers will be more likely to drive on a pair because of legalization, as you see here a quarter, we’re not concerned.

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Jeffrey Short: But then the majority had some concerns with extremely concerned being 40%. So

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Jeffrey Short: certainly, the idea of marijuana being available legally available

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Jeffrey Short: to a driver, even though the driver is not allowed to continue, operate a commercial vehicle

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Jeffrey Short: and use marijuana.

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Jeffrey Short: Certainly there, there’s concern there that this this will impact a business next slide.

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Jeffrey Short: Now, this one’s this one’s even more interesting. Are you concerned that a driver is more likely to test positive and post crash screen? So it’s not necessarily

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Jeffrey Short: testing positive in a random drug scenario. But this is this is.

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Jeffrey Short: this is even worse for the motor carrier where you have a crash, and then it requires a screening.

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Jeffrey Short: and then the driver

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Jeffrey Short: test positive for marijuana, and that that may be influenced by how readily available marijuana is that becomes a huge concern from a liability standpoint, sir, because this is the this is the type of thing a plainest lawyer is going to bring out

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Jeffrey Short: from their perspective. This is what they’re looking for. And they can say, All right. This person is using drugs. even though they not necessarily using drugs within

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Jeffrey Short: 2 weeks of an accident, for instance.

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Jeffrey Short: it could be well outside of

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Jeffrey Short: of operating hours and still be a positive test. So

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Jeffrey Short: here, you see extreme concern. 58%.

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Jeffrey Short: Next slide

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Jeffrey Short: is there concern that insurance rates? Are you concerned? Insurance rates will increase if you’re downsized in a in a state where it’s legal. The majority had concerns and almost half were extremely concerned.

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Jeffrey Short: There were

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Jeffrey Short: about a fifth. We’re not concerned by this, and that could be because they aren’t. They aren’t in a legal state.

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Jeffrey Short: If you’re downsized in in Georgia, for instance, you’re probably not worried. That marijuana is going to become legal anytime soon. That’s where I’m based on. So next slide.

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Jeffrey Short: So next going on, the driver survey results.

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Jeffrey Short: So, we ask, we ask drivers

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Jeffrey Short: while your off duty in a state where marijuana is legal. Are you allowed to use marijuana?

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Jeffrey Short: Most drivers said, No, you’re not.

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Jeffrey Short: That’s great news it was about 3 quarters of drivers said, No.

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Jeffrey Short: you’re a CDL holder. You’re not allowed to use marijuana ever. but 19% of drivers were not sure of. The CDL holder can use

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Jeffrey Short: marijuana. This is of drivers off duty in a state where it’s legal, and this kind of this kind of gets the point of the problem.

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Jeffrey Short: drivers. There are some drivers out there who are unclear on these laws because they’re kind of conflicting.

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Jeffrey Short: It’s like, all right. It’s legal in my state. Maybe it’s okay for me to use. And then suddenly, they get a random drug test which is currently set at a pretty high threshold. The random drug test, 50

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Jeffrey Short: of your workforce of your drivers, of your safety, safety, sensitive workforce and then they’re in the clearing house

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Jeffrey Short: 6%. Incorrectly said drivers can use marijuana off duty and states, whereas that’s a small number

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Jeffrey Short: which is, it’s good that it’s a small number. We expected some folks to fall into that care category. Maybe not that many

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Jeffrey Short: So next driver impair. Oh, sorry

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Jeffrey Short: if you ever go back. One slide

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Jeffrey Short: driver. Opinions on impairment.

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Jeffrey Short: how impairment time! How long are you? Impair? Impaired after using recreational marijuana? And actually no one knows the answer to this. There’s there’s

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Jeffrey Short: because marijuana potency varies so much. It’s completely unregulated. How much marijuana could be in a product that is sold for recreational use.

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Jeffrey Short: But what driver said that the plurality, the most common response, as it’s put here, is after 10 h or more, and

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Jeffrey Short: and it’s a safe. It’s a safe that that after 10 h

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Jeffrey Short: level of impairment has decreased. Some folks did say it was a much shorter time, and some folks said.

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Jeffrey Short: Well, well, beyond 24 h is needed, and that may be the case also. It depends where this goes and where the industry

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Jeffrey Short: wants it to go, and whether that can be. whether or not that can be measured.

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Jeffrey Short: Finally,

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Jeffrey Short: drivers are on the road all the time seeing what’s going on seeing the cars operating around them. And we asked them, do they believe, based on their experiences, that highway safety has been impacted by legalize marijuana.

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Jeffrey Short: and the majority of driver said, no, that said 45 said Yes.

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Jeffrey Short: so, I was a little surprised by this. I thought I thought it would be far more. But

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Jeffrey Short: still, it’s 45% saying. Yes, safety has been impacted in states where recreational marijuana is legal. So let’s move on to the next slide.

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Jeffrey Short: So

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Jeffrey Short: we then asked drivers and carriers

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Jeffrey Short: should marijuana that marijuana impairment test

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Jeffrey Short: replace the current marijuana use test

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Jeffrey Short: and the reason for this question is

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Jeffrey Short: a as I’ve gone through several times.

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Jeffrey Short: marijuana stays in the system for a long time well beyond the state of impairment.

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Jeffrey Short: And would it be better if there were a task

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Jeffrey Short: that measured whether you’re impaired? And many drivers in their comments said stuff like

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Jeffrey Short: under FMCSA. Rule. You can. You are not allowed to drink alcohol

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Jeffrey Short: 4 h or less before going on duty. So

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Jeffrey Short: 4 and a half hours prior to going on duty. You are alive. and you must have. You can have alcohol in your blood.

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Jeffrey Short: According to the FMCSA, regs, but it must be under point 0,

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Jeffrey Short: or I believe, don’t quote me on that, but it must be below a level. But you can still have alcohol in your body and operate legal.

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Jeffrey Short: But marijuana.

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Jeffrey Short: Within 30 days it’s not so.

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Jeffrey Short: We asked them. Should an impairment test replace the marijuana use test. And I think this speaks to the frustration that both drivers and carriers

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Jeffrey Short: are having with this topic 65% said, yes. There needs to be a change. There needs to be

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Jeffrey Short: something here to replace the current, the status quo so that would be a majority for sure.

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Jeffrey Short: And then 20% of drivers said, said, no, we need to stick with status on the 30-carrier said status.

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Jeffrey Short: So, moving on to the next slide.

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Jeffrey Short: so, we conclude the report with

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Jeffrey Short: the idea of 2 Federal pathways that can be taken.

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Jeffrey Short: Really, the balls in the in the Federal Government’s courts. Court. Certainly.

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Jeffrey Short: more and more States are going to make marijuana legal.

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Jeffrey Short: And this issue isn’t going to get

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Jeffrey Short: get better anytime soon. There really needs to be a push towards

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Jeffrey Short: towards better testing better ways to identify impairment. but the Federal Government has to take the lead at some point here that it can’t just

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Jeffrey Short: it. It can’t just be in con conflict with all the States.

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Jeffrey Short: So, there are 2 pathways, the first one being marijuana, remains a federally prohibited schedule, one drug.

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Jeffrey Short: If, as this continues the trend, but CDL, holder, marijuana, positive test is likely to continue especially

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Jeffrey Short: if there is an if there is a driver shortage it’s going to be impact and continue to impact the industry.

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Jeffrey Short: And the other thing that might happen is marijuana rules might evolve towards Federal legalization, but that that’s very tricky. Also, I mentioned the schedule one designation, and

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Jeffrey Short: that’s important. Without that schedule one designation

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Jeffrey Short: there could be drivers who say alright. I have a medical card.

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Jeffrey Short: and I need an exemption, and I found a doctor who says I can use marijuana and drive. Well, that might be against your company’s policies. That might be too much risk

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Jeffrey Short: too much risk for you as a carrier to take, and then make sense that it would be

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Jeffrey Short: but there are instances in case law where folks in Connecticut and Massachusetts have brought Americans with disability

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Jeffrey Short: act lawsuits

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Jeffrey Short: against, not motor carriers, but

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Jeffrey Short: several employers who aren’t safety sensitive.

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alright, and safety sensitive

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Jeffrey Short: industries. But

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Jeffrey Short: folks have faced lawsuits from employees who said

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Jeffrey Short: I was denied employment because I tested positive for marijuana. But I’m using it to treat Chron’s disease, or I’m using it to treat Ptsd so without that schedule. One

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Jeffrey Short: designation

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Jeffrey Short: a lot a lot of issues kind of show up for the trucking industry. So, what needs to happen before that sort of thing would happen at the Federal level. Certainly, there need to be

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Jeffrey Short: protections for carriers to have the choice to screen for drugs, even if it is for metabolites.

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Jeffrey Short: A carrier should be able to choose whether or not

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Jeffrey Short: they screen their drivers, candidates, etc.

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Jeffrey Short: There absolutely must be a national impairment test and standards as well.

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Jeffrey Short: If you’re going to legalize this.

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Jeffrey Short: there needs to be a way to detect impairment and then, finally.

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Jeffrey Short: developing deeper knowledge of safety impact of marijuana. There needs to be more data collection. How many folks are out there driving while impaired?

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Jeffrey Short: Therefore, what can we do to prevent that? Just like what is always done with alcohol. But I don’t think there’s a good grasp of how many folks is driving while impaired. How many of the crashes

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Jeffrey Short: that we have each year are related to marijuana because

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Jeffrey Short: they’re just simply not being tested because the test doesn’t say alright.

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Jeffrey Short: It’s a factor in this crash because the person tested positive because it’s not a test

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Jeffrey Short: or impairment. It’s a test for past use, and marijuana may or may not be a contributing factor. It’s still a very fuzzy area without

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Jeffrey Short: without the impairment task.

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Jeffrey Short: So, with that I will, I think I’ll turn it over questions.

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Jeffrey Short: And

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Jeffrey Short: I should point out here, if you’d like to receive our research in the future, you can go to our website and subscribe to ask his latest research. and it may not be on the front page any longer. But this report, the full report is there on the website.

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Jeffrey Short: You can see it here. I think it’s the second thing latest news, but it has likely moved.

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Jeffrey Short: You can just use the search bar and search marijuana, and you’ll find that report and you can download it for free and next slide

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Jeffrey Short: questions outside of here, you can certainly send me an email. So, with that. We can go to QA.

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Steve Kessler: Thank you, Jeff.

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Steve Kessler: that’s some amazing statistics that kind of caught me by surprise that some of the numbers there. We do have a question here from Jim Vaughn, and I kind of expected this question

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Steve Kessler: some of the test. The results are coming from long term use of CBD products.

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Jeffrey Short: Yeah, have you looked at this issue? So, we did. And we asked Carrier, and we asked

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Jeffrey Short: drivers if they were

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Jeffrey Short: aware of someone they knew

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Jeffrey Short: who had used it. And if you give me just a second, I don’t have that.

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Jeffrey Short: Who had who had been impacted.

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Jeffrey Short: And II believe it wasn’t a majority. But it was a good percentage who said they knew someone who was using CBD oil.

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Jeffrey Short: And it had been had tested positive for marijuana.

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Jeffrey Short: So, what’s going on with the CBD oil?

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Jeffrey Short: I don’t generally give advice, but

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Jeffrey Short: let’s say I had a CDL. And II was driving. II certainly would not use CBD oil, because

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Jeffrey Short: the label may say one thing, but it’s not regulated by the Boom drug administration. It’s not a highly regulated industry. It’s

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Jeffrey Short: what’s called an herbal supplement. I wouldn’t put it into my body because it is quite possible, since it’s coming from similar species, or it may actually become directly.

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Jeffrey Short: it may actually

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Jeffrey Short: have THC in it.

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Jeffrey Short: that is not removed, or they’re just pulling it from the wrong strain of the of the plant.

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Jeffrey Short: it is possible for you to test positive if it has THC in it, and at the end of the day, if you want to risk your career

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Jeffrey Short: you could use it. But

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Jeffrey Short: III would tell any driver who asked me

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Jeffrey Short: directly I’d say no, because you don’t know what’s in it, regardless of what’s on the label, regardless of the guarantees.

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Jeffrey Short: there are just too many uncertainties, and I’m sure if you do your own cost benefit, maybe the benefits of it

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Jeffrey Short: aren’t as a as aren’t on par with the risks

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Steve Kessler: just to jump in here. There was another comment by Jim, that person to ask the CBD question.

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Steve Kessler: and this is kind of an interesting thought says, if you have an impairment test and a driver is killed in a crash. All you have is a blood test to confirm impairment.

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Steve Kessler: And you know that creates a difficult circumstance there, too. If the drivers kill

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Steve Kessler: you know, depending upon what the impairment test turns out to be. You may have nothing more than a blood test. Umhm. And

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Steve Kessler: I just found that to be an interesting comment. I don’t know that there’s any answers to a lot of these questions. Yeah.

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Steve Kessler: that’s a that’s a tough one.

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Steve Kessler: Somebody is asking if they can get a link or a copy of this in in their emails. And of course, the webinars have been recorded, and we’ll make sure we send out a link so everybody can get access to this in the future.

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Steve Kessler: mark, do you have any comments or questions that popped into your mind? You’ve been in this business a long time.

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Mark Rhea: Absolutely. I could go on for another couple of hours, probably. But we don’t want to do that. One question I had

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Mark Rhea: Jeff. You mentioned 30 days that that you can expect the marijuana to stay in your system?

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Jeffrey Short: Is, does that also apply to hair testing, or does it go a little longer than hair testing would go up to 90 days and hair testing is a solution for

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Jeffrey Short: the cocaine, the methamphetamine issue with urine testing and it is leaving the body. It’s going to stay in your hair for up to 90 days is what the literature says.

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Jeffrey Short: So, hair testing would bring

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Jeffrey Short: both out to that to that longer time. Period.

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Jeffrey Short: so, it extends. It extends, extends detectability. So, you couldn’t

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Jeffrey Short: obviously use it in place of the year analysis. But you can use it.

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Jeffrey Short: I believe, as part of as just another test. You do not can, I assure you our friends in the plaintiffs, attorneys, world can use it against you in the court of law. So that’s something to the other thing I did. That really struck me. Steve and Jeff were the 20 of these drivers that were

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Mark Rhea: confused, maybe, is the best word to say about the whole issue. And I think, as an industry the executives that are on this call

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Mark Rhea: certainly, need to reach out and do some content. I know we’ve got some content in the system. If not, do some custom. Content to get your drivers to transfer that information to them and not rely on

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Mark Rhea: the guy sitting next to him at the truck. Stop for advice on how to on CBD oil. So, there’s a lot of confusion out there. These are our major issues. And

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Mark Rhea: a a learning platform that you can reach out to your drivers this afternoon. I think, Steve, there’s actually content that that’s available, or even better than that, to do a custom content on on

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Mark Rhea: the impacts. The reality of marijuana use the impairment, the CDL oil issue. All of that you got it. You’ve got to get that out to your fleet.

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Mark Rhea: 20% you’re if 20% of the driver survey. So, I don’t have any idea. I don’t know what you’re talking about. and those are the ones that answered the survey. I would speculate that the numbers are a little bit north of 20 for the whole driver population.

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Steve Kessler: Yeah, I suspect you’re right Mark, and we’re right on the screen here. We’ve got a couple of new pieces of content about marijuana and also CBD.

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Steve Kessler: and we’ve kind of taken the stance in those that kind of what’s legal and allowable today. So, the recommendation under marijuana is under current circumstances

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Steve Kessler: it should be avoided at all costs by drivers, cause there’s a huge risk, if in a random test that they’ll show positive. And it’s just taking drivers out of our available pool

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Steve Kessler: and our advice on our CBD, even though it’s legal in all 50 States.

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Steve Kessler: because you can’t verify what’s in the CBD. It’s best to just leave it alone and then not use it at all. And I think that, Jeff, that’s what you recommended. It’s best at this point to leave it leave it alone.

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Steve Kessler: So, I don’t know if we have any other questions out there. Feel free to. You know, type those into the chat box. But, as Mark said, if you have some interest in getting access to some of the training we offer. We’re happy to speak with you about that.

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Steve Kessler: And

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Steve Kessler: you know, if you’d like to learn more about what we can do. I think there’s little Poll question that’s popping up on the screen here that you can.

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Steve Kessler: Let us know, and we’ll reach out and touch base with you.

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Steve Kessler: Any other questions, any other comments from you, Mark. II just like to thank Jeff for the work he’s done on this and in the American transportation research. This is a very difficult issue. And it’s

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Mark Rhea: it’s not going away. It’s not going to solve itself. And our industry relies on professionals like you to help us

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Mark Rhea: get through this swamp. So, thank you very much for all you’ve done for our industry, and hopefully we will.

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Mark Rhea: Get a little better control over it in the future.

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Steve Kessler: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Hey, hey, Jeff, really quick before you before you bail out, and II don’t know if you can answer this or not. But we have a guest from from Colorado, I’m guessing. And she says any word on testing in Colorado. We’ve heard that they were testing a possible breath test

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Steve Kessler: kind of like a breath alcohol test. Have you heard anything about that?

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Jeffrey Short: I am not familiar with that? But I know there are a number of approaches

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Jeffrey Short: that are being looked at. There’s breath test mouth, swab. There are folks who

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Jeffrey Short: think you can scan the brain. Now, I don’t know how you do this from the from the roadside, but they’ve shown you can tell if someone’s impaired on marijuana through some kind of brain scan

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Jeffrey Short: that sounds unwieldy to me. But

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Jeffrey Short: hey, whoever can make this work? It’s it’s. It’s a good business to be in. If you if you can get something

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Jeffrey Short: if you can get

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Jeffrey Short: some agreed upon accepted impairment testing. I know New Zealand had

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Jeffrey Short: put into place briefly. A law on.

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Jeffrey Short: I think it’s nanograms. I

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Jeffrey Short: I’m not a chemist, but an amount of THC in the blood would mean you’re impaired. Let’s put it that way. And then they

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Jeffrey Short: they threw that law out because they said, there’s just not enough proof that this proves anything about whether you’re impaired or not. So

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Jeffrey Short: if we hopefully, we can get enough people working on this enough

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Jeffrey Short: enough chemistry experts, certainly.

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Jeffrey Short: to figure this out. Maybe there will be a solution. But

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Jeffrey Short: I don’t see one in the in the coming years. II see this kind of

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Jeffrey Short: getting more difficult before it gets easier. Unfortunately.

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Jeffrey Short: but hopefully, hopefully, there will be more research put into this area. And one of the I don’t know if I call it ironic. But interesting things is with legalization.

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Jeffrey Short: In some states it opens up the ability to research the impacts of marijuana on subjects so right in a way that that could be a helpful thing on the research side, a little difficult to do research on something that’s illegal. So right? So

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Steve Kessler: listen, Jeff, thank you so much. I greatly appreciate you bringing your information to the program today.

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Steve Kessler: and to all of you out there ATRI is an extremely valuable resource. And I would ask you all too. Seriously consider supporting that organization.

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Steve Kessler: I think it’s important work that they do, and we would not be in the know about a lot of things like this if it wasn’t for people like Jeff in that organization. So

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Steve Kessler: once again, Jeff, thank you very much for coming, thanks to all of you out there in the audience for joining us today, and we hope that we can see you on a program sometime down the road. Jeff. Thank you very much, sir, appreciate you. Thank you. Bye bye.